Your Thoughts: Muppets Letters to Santa

[Redsonga]

Hmm...I'd rather save a bag (and a tree ) forget about VMX altogether and keep LTS thank you :3. *hugs it*

 

[frogboy4]

Hmm...I'd rather save a bag (and a tree ) forget about VMX altogether and keep LTS thank you :3. *hugs it*

Woah, that was kind of snarky. Were you on the VMX writing staff?

 

[Redsonga]

Woah, that was kind of snarky. Were you on the VMX writing staff?

No...I didn't mean it snakily ether (I have a temper and I'm stubborn but I never mean things in true anger to anyone. Just image everything I type in a small cheery voice and you have me in RL :3), it's just of all the films VMX is one of my least favorites so I'd rather not mix the two :3. You know now that I think of it: Growing up I only saw at most two episodes of the Muppet Show itself, and that was when I was already a teenager to so things like the theater setting (apart from the one at the start of TMM and the one in MTM) hold no sentimental value for me as far as where the muppets 'belong'. That's not to say I don't enjoy TMS setting, but it doesn't carry as much weight to me at someone that grew up seeing every episode from the get go.... I grew up with the muppets away from being on stage, or in the pretend nursery, so VMX's return to that just doesn't carry the same feeling for me to offset all the low points..if that makes any sense.
On the other hand happy energy+the muppets out and about (LTS) is the muppets to me in a way, since, well, my mind just doesn't deep down link them to the stage (even though I have nearly all the season sets now)....
*sigh* Go ahead, you can kick me out of the muppet fan club now *sniffles and walks away sadly*

 

[Super Scooter]

I think part of the appeal of IAVMMCM is that Kermit is right where he belongs. The curtain's up and the lights are bright and they're playing our old song... wait.

Anyway, Kermit's the main character again in IAVMMCM. The focus is on him and what he's going through, and that hadn't happened for 12 years at that point. His emotional journey in that film seemed like what he went through in The Muppets Take Manhattan at times. Similair, anyway. Kermit's always been snarky, the same as how Charlie McCarthy was snarky, though I do agree the overall tone of the film was a bit more "snarky" and sarcastic than in the past. The whole thing seemed like a step in the right direction for many, though. A lot of posts at that time reflected that opinion.

 

[frogboy4]

No...I didn't mean it snakily ether (I have a temper and I'm stubborn but I never mean things in true anger to anyone. Just image everything I type in a small cheery voice and you have me in RL ), it's just of all the films VMX is one of my least favorites so I'd rather not mix the two. You know now that I think of it: Growing up I only saw at most two episodes of the Muppet Show itself, and that was when I was already a teenager to so things like the theater setting (apart from the one at the start of TMM and the one in MTM) hold no sentimental value for me as far as where the muppets 'belong'.

The theater is the Muppets' origin so of course that's where they belong. It's also where many of the character dynamics come from. I like seeing them both in and out of the theater. It had been so long since we'd seen them in their natural vaudeville setting so that made VMX even more special to original Muppet Show fans like me. But that's beside the point.

There's good and bad in every movie. I don't particularly like MFS or KSY. I give them both close to failing grades as far as films go, but I will freely admit to the several good moments they contain when I am criticizing them. Surely there must have been some good in VMX that you did like or maybe you just paint with a wider brush than I do when viewing things. Black or white, yes or no, bad or good with no exceptions.

Where VMX has more of an actual story, Kermit as the leader and a classic setting - LTS has the joy; it has the music and the Muppety spirit of Christmas I haven't seen since the days of Jim. Those are the elements I'd like to see mixed together. That's my feeling on the matter as a lifelong Muppet and Muppet Show fan that grew up while the projects were contemporary instead of nostalgic. I'm a TMS/TMM/GMC fan first instead of the younger MFS/MT/KSY generation. I still think a Muppet project can have it all and suit all tastes.

 

[Redsonga]

Surely there must have been some good in VMX that you did like or maybe you just paint with a wider brush than I do when viewing things. Black or white, yes or no, bad or good with no exceptions.

I have exceptions, I really do, it's just that VMX didn't have any real strong ones for me . It left a bad taste in my mouth that small good parts couldn't wash away...

Those are the elements I'd like to see mixed together. That's my feeling on the matter as a lifelong Muppet and Muppet Show fan that grew up while the projects were contemporary instead of nostalgic. I'm a TMS/TMM/GMC fan first instead of the younger MFS/MT/KSY generation. I still think a Muppet project can have it all and suit all tastes.

Well really one persons nostalgic is another persons here and now, and they learn to love it at whatever point they end up being born around as that being just the way the muppets are . I dunno, I was born at an inbetween time I guess, TMS wasn't being shown on tv where I lived, but my parents owned a first copy of The Muppet Movie on a 70's VHS, Muppet Babies was on, and I had GMC and the Muppet's trip to Disneyworld recorded on an old tape I would watch over and over.

I didn't actually see MTM until a few years ago (Not because I didn't want to but I actually didn't know it was ever made and didn't have internet, it was so weird seeing the muppet babies as puppets after so many years of them being only a cartoon O.O )
I guess because of my not seeing more than a couple episodes of TMS, plus the fact that I never saw MTM (I love the muppets and fantasy movies and I never saw Labyrinth until I was nineteen to, weird isn't it?) is why I link Kermit and everyone more to walking around in the world than the stage (not that I dislike them being on stage but it doesn't have that warm link to memories for me) ....

All that said I think any generation of fan can love LTS and KSY, we don't need to group it into ages :3. Even though I don't like VMX I don't think it is because I am older or anything, I just as a person don't care for it.

In the end I guess, everyones history with the muppets is different, and even two fans born at the same time can see and love the muppets for different reasons ...

 

[CensoredAlso]

I have exceptions, I really do, it's just that VMX didn't have any real strong ones for me . It left a bad taste in my mouth that small good parts couldn't wash away...

I did appreciate its good message, but it was overtaken by the jadedness and trying too hard to seem adult. The older projects didn't have to try as hard to be adult.

 

[frogboy4]

Even though I don't like VMX I don't think it is because I am older or anything, I just as a person don't care for it....

Actually, you created the initial age linkage (at least for your part) in saying:

Growing up I only saw at most two episodes of the Muppet Show itself, and that was when I was already a teenager to so things like the theater setting (apart from the one at the start of TMM and the one in MTM) hold no sentimental value for me as far as where the muppets 'belong'.

I do think there is a generational element to how the projects are perceived, but it is one of several factors. I can understand how someone from my generation would expect the Muppets to have a sharper wit than has been seen in recent years. It just appears that you won't give VMX its due in *any* sense. That just goes beyond reason IMHO. I guess it's back to the black or white viewpoint. I see things in many Muppety colors.

 

[CensoredAlso]

It just appears that you won't give VMX its due in *any* sense. That just goes beyond reason IMHO. I guess it's back to the black or white viewpoint. I see things in many Muppety colors.

Sometimes you just don't like movies though, hehe. I think VMX could have had a good story but the jokes just pulled it down in my opinion. Older Muppet movies didn't have to try so hard to seem adult.

 

[frogboy4]

Sometimes you just don't like movies though, hehe. I think VMX could have had a good story but the jokes just pulled it down in my opinion. Older Muppet movies didn't have to try so hard to seem adult.

I agree with some of that. VMX certainly did go too far over the edge in some of its jokes. We disagree with the degree, but I get it.

However - to say either VMX or LTS have *no* good moments for a fan is ridiculous. I didn't like MFS and pretty much loathed KSY, but both contain some great Muppety moments for this fan. MFS had that wonderful opening sequence, some great comedy with Pepe, some soulful Gonzo moments and a good sense of camaraderie. KSY had a great musical number with Life as a Pet and some fun moments with new characters Goggles and Croaker. MFS gains a D from me and KSY an F. It's clear they are both films that I do not like, but to paint my distaste with such a wide brush that it eclipses some real Muppety value would be blind stubbornness on my part. Again, I see in MuppetColor not mere black and white.