Your Thoughts: Howard Tubman

[RedPiggy]

Thanks for the link, as I had never seen them. To be honest, I thought Howard in VMX was Bobby Vegan. Considering how Howard is in those clips, maybe the writers or Bill got confused too. I like Muppets Tonight Howard and I'd be amused to see Bobby-Howard.

 

[frogboy4]

Howard is alright by me. I see potential in him if they can expand the humor beyond his girth and gayness. Of course those elements are part of him, but I think his bits are missing that extra layer of humor that even seemingly one-note Muppets like Animal and Swedish Chef have.

Also, of course Howard is gay. He's the prototype for Tinseltown's Bobby Vegan. He's not the same puppet, but similar in voice, look, tone and is also performed by Bill Barretta.

Muppets Tonight got off on the wrong foot, a crummy Urkel-adjacent Friday night time slot (when teens and college kids break free from the confines of home) and consisted off too many new characters competing against one another for screen time while the classic Muppets audiences tuned into see were far in the background - if at all. The new cast introduction was aggressive. New Muppets must be phased in the mix. Who knew Pepe would be the break out star? Unfortunately few other characters held his initial magic and appeal.

I can sum up Muppets Tonight's collapse with one main flaw:
Retiring Kermit and resigning him to a sort of apathetic role with the Muppet gang just doesn't work. Clifford received all the hate for that and it wasn't his fault. Kermit is always the heart of the Muppets. MT forgot that and never had the chance to recover after all the on again-off again fits and starts.

 

[Drtooth]

Muppets Tonight got off on the wrong foot, a crummy Urkel-adjacent Friday night time slot (when teens and college kids break free from the confines of home) and consisted off too many new characters competing against one another for screen time while the classic Muppets audiences tuned into see were far in the background - if at all. The new cast introduction was aggressive. New Muppets must be phased in the mix. Who knew Pepe would be the break out star? Unfortunately few other characters held his initial magic and appeal.

I can sum up Muppets Tonight's collapse with one main flaw:
Retiring Kermit and resigning him to a sort of apathetic role with the Muppet gang just doesn't work. Clifford received all the hate for that and it wasn't his fault. Kermit is always the heart of the Muppets. MT forgot that and never had the chance to recover after all the on again-off again fits and starts.

Another nail hit squarely in the head. Not to mention the fact the writers themselves admitted to not having a solid direction for the show until it was just about to be canceled .

And a lot of the characters didn't mesh... we had basically a bunch of random Pigs trying to fill the Miss Piggy void, and having them become one note jokes, and poor ones at that. Andy and Randy were basically the standard dumb guys, and Spamela Hamderson and David Hasslehog were characters that only turned out to be caricatures and little else.

And looking back on it, there were a lot of good segments in MT, but seems like the best stuff went to fill in the UK spots, while everything else was just a parody of a TV show trying to disguise itself as an old time Muppet Show segment.

 

[Ruahnna]

I know this is a discussion about the characters as they actually appeared, but please let me (apologetically) jump in as a fanfic writer and say something about Howard and some of the other Muppets Tonight characters: I didn't know how much I liked some of the characters from MT until I began to use them regularly in my fanfics. I reallyl like Howard--he has great emotional capacity and seems like a natural fit alongside the older muppets. It isn't hard to imagine him as Piggy's frequent co-conspirator, and his tough-love choreography with the chorus girls made me like him in spite of his fussiness. I also found myself warming to Johnny and Sal, who's sadly unequal friendship is great fodder for plots and jokes alike. Clifford was asked to fill enormous, um, flippers on MT and the failure of that effort was not a reflection on his worth or popularity as a character. All of these characters added a richness to the tapestry of characters that would be lacking otherwise.

But looking at these characters and this particular thread, I have to say that I believe that there is a lot owed to It's A Very Merry Muppet Christmas. VMX sort of "codefied" the characters for most of us--writing character traits in stone that had only be touched on in short segments from MT. Also, seeing the characters as part of a larger plot--instead of in a series of one-shot scenes that are the heart and soul of any variety show--helped establish the keepers. After VMX, it was hard for me to remember TMS without thinking, in the back of my mind, that Pepe was probably there the whole time--just unseen and underfoot--and that Clifford was working some angle in the business office the whole time. Without the bridge of VMX, I don't think some of these characters would have become fixtures as they have done. (Let's face it--if we're craving a "muppet-fix" we're much more likely to put in a muppet MOVIE than a muppet episode (of ANY sort) to feed it.

 

[minor muppetz]

Man, I watched those clips, and they were great. It's a shame that they were hardly ever shown in the american portions (though Carter did make a cameo in Martin Short's closing number). it seems, however, like they were playing roles. I wonder if Howard would really be rich if he appeared outside of those sketches. And with that it makes a bit of sense that he had a different role as choreographer in It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie.

The best one was the one where Carter hid the jar of apple butter. I also like the explosion one.

It would be great if they appear in the new movie (if it gets made) and any new series, but I'd stillr ather see the return of characters like Lips, Digit, Bill the Bubble Guy, Leon, Lindberg, Seymour, Nigel (both Nigel's), and Lubbock Lou and his jughuggers.

 

[minor muppetz]

I agree. There are some fans out there that want the Muppets' next television series (whatever and whenever that is) to essentially be a sixth season of The Muppet Show. They want it to use the same cast and the same format as the original Muppet Show. I would much rather have their next television venture be something new and original - yet featuring the cast of Muppets we've all come to know and love (plus develop and add new characters too). It's a tricky balancing act to be fresh and new while still delivering the good ol' fashioned classic Muppets that people would expect to see on a "Muppet" show. I think Muppets Tonight (and even The Jim Henson Hour) struggled somewhat with the balancing act – pushing the characters people were expecting and wanting to see to the back while thrusting brand-new ones to the forefront.

I think you do have a bit of a point. After reading this, I though *** might be nice if the Muppets did maybe a summer series in which the Muppets work at a summer camp. Have Kermit be in charge of the camp, have Fozzie, Piggy, Gonzo, and a few other established characetrs be counsilors, have others teach certain classes and activities, and then introduce several new child characters for each main character to lead, and also include Robin, Bean, and Andy and Randy Pig, and maybe also reuse several generic frogs, chickens, rats, and random monsters (after all, an idea like this would probably have too many characters to develop). Maybe a new Muppet character could be created as a counsilor. My idea is a female dog counsilor, for Miss Piggy to compete with and maybe be a love itnerest for Rowlf.

 

[frogboy4]

I still miss the old vaudevillian aspect of the Muppet Show and the theater. If there were ever to be another Muppet television show I'd hope that it would still be set around the theater, yet not have it take "center stage" as it once did. Muppets Tonight's KMUP TV station setting seemed odd because it could have easily been the Muppet Theater. The set resembled it so the change really wasn't all that necessary.

I'd like to see a Muppet Show that focused on life after the show where the classic Muppets would meet up with new Muppets, humans and celebrities in everyday life outside of the show. The credits could show the characters ending their day at the theater. After that they could drop by the grocery store or a restaurant where they could see Howard and/or any number of celebrity guests. Just thinking - old meets new cast.

 

[minor muppetz]

That's be good, too. A sitcom where the theater is present, but it's not a variety show format. With more plot focus, and maybe having the characters living at either the boarding house or apartment.

 

[Drtooth]

I still miss the old vaudevillian aspect of the Muppet Show and the theater. If there were ever to be another Muppet television show I'd hope that it would still be set around the theater, yet not have it take "center stage" as it once did. Muppets Tonight's KMUP TV station setting seemed odd because it could have easily been the Muppet Theater. The set resembled it so the change really wasn't all that necessary.

I think that's one of the main problems with MT... they clearly wanted it to be sort of a Jay Leno meets SNL type deal that was too hard to mix together..... Of course, I really liked how The Jim Henson Hour "Muppet Central" segment was set up. They run a TV station of sorts that shows all sorts of quick shows from other parts of the universe and like that. And stuff happened in between the shows that reflected the theme, or even caused problems in the show itself.

But if a new Muppet show happens, I definitely want to see a return to the Muppet Theater... I mean, VMX did it, and so didn't the Weezer music video... it's just their iconic niche.... it would be like taking Bid Bird and the rest off of Sesame Street and put them in a pretend live studio audience....

 

[dwmckim]

I remember an interview (though don't recall who it was with - Brian or more likely one of the writing staff) talking about how it wasn't until the very end of Muppets Tonight when they did the "Johnny Fiama Leaves Home" episode (the last episode before the Best Of) that the creative staff really figured out what the show was really best suited to be in terms of style - that they really loved how more than just being a variety type show with a backstage plot, that episode was more its own story that just happened to involve the people at the studio and took part some inside it and also outside of it. But by that time it was too late to do more since that was the end. But i've sensed that if there was another Muppet television series, it would basically be a sitcom (for lack of better word) that showed the Muppets having adventures both inside and outside the theatre). There would be lots of scenes of acts and musical numbers being performed but it wouldn't actually be a variety show format. So yeah - very much like VMX as a weekly series.

I would very much love to see this. But then again, i'd also be just as happy with a full resurrection (ie season six) of The Muppet Show. Or even better (to me at least if no one else) something under an umbrella like "Muppet Madness" where you'd tune in one week and see basically a new episode of The Muppet Show, another week would be a sitcom type story that takes place outside the theatre - another just random bits of Muppet humor and mania - think of just a bunch of short skits like what's been on muppets.com - kind of that anthology/something different every week feel that was planned for JHH but solely in terms of the Muppets)