Your ideas: 4 free 03 Palisades spots?

[frogboy4]

ElecMayhem

I understand your loyalty toward classic characters, but I think if people on the board had a choice between Pepe and a second..uhum...third version of Sam, they'd prefer Pepe. Why another Scooter too? I'd rather see Nigel, Lewis Kazagger or even Mildred before a second or actually third version of a character.

 

[ElecMayhem]

Jamie-

I see what you mean. But my understanding of the situation, as it stands now, is that Henson is not supporting making some of the characters into figures. Wayne, Wanda, Hilda, Mildred, and George -- the last that I heard -- were probably not going to make the cut. Even Lips was, at one time anyway, given the thumbs down by Henson.

I certainly don't want to put words into anyone's mouth, but that is my understanding of the situation. With over 1000 posts regarding to these figures between the old board and the new, it is possible -- or rather likely -- that I have missed something, or that something has changed and it slipped by me.

We (the fans) can talk about it until we are blue in the face, but if Henson doesn't want these chraracters made -- and objectively, I can see why -- then they will not get made. I have to say, I agree with Henson's decision. The aforementioned characters are NOT recognizeable to the general public, and could effectively contribute to the demise of this wonderful line. I mean, we are getting Crazy Harry, Lew Zealand, Link Hogthrob, Dr. Strangepork... Even if they stop after Series 4, I think that the Muppet fan community has done well...

From a marketing stand-point, I can understand Henson's rejecting some of the Muppet characters we know and love. When I do post my "dream" Series 9-12, you will see that I have included Annie Sue, Lips, Nigel, and Lewis Kazagger... But these characters -- if they do get made -- would have to be slippped in occassionally with the new versions of the characters that EVERYONE (casual and die hard fans alike) know and love. The characters who will keep this line alive and thriving.

Again, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth. These are just my opinions and in no way reflect anything that Henson or Palisades is saying or doing. That having been said, I do work in marketing, and I am trying to keep this stuff in the back of my mind while attempting to predict what I think is a realistic plan for the future...

Travis

 

[ZootandDingo]

Originally posted by frogboy4
Keep in mind that the Kermit and Sam you propose would be choice, so they would come in the reguar line. I'd rather have any number of other characters first.

Agreed. As much as I like Sam, I don't think we need to see a new one of him every year. Palisades will already have enough big guns to juggle variations around to keep them available every year (Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo, Animal, maybe Rowlf or Scooter). I can wait until 2004 for another Sam.

In fact, in the future what I would like to see Palisades do is offer the big stars in ways that wouldn't muscle in on the normal assortments. Like maybe a Kermit and Piggy two-pack for Christmas of '03 or a Gonzo deluxe stunt accessory set. You know, stand-alone items that will keep the major characters readily available and still leave the general figure series open for new characters.

It seems to be a fine line to walk when a company needs to keep a figure line alive after so long, yet still make the line fresh and exciting for collectors from the get-go. Hasbro is probably the worst example of how to do it with their Batman line. They only introduce new characters now in 20-dollar four-packs at TRU (and I mean one new character, three rehashed characters in each set).

While on the other hand, Hasbro seems to do this well with their Star Wars line. They make a new Luke or Vader or Han every so often, and then they try to offer a whole assortment of new characters.

 

[frogboy4]

I just think a Pepe would be better than a 3rd version of a character and he would contribute to the longevity of the line. As for lesser known characters, Ken has expressed a liking for Lewis Kazagger and Lips is on the fence it seems, but certainly not with us fans. Most of us are for him, of course.

I just don't see why all the "main group" of 7-10 characters need to be represented every year. I do understant taht the fan faves would need to be sprinkled in, but there are already enough big guns that have been green-lighted by Ken (as much as they can be approved right now) that we don't need to add unneccessary multiple versions of Sam the Eagle next year. It's a great idea, but maybe further down the line. Just my view. I just can't imagine that everybody's supporting multiple versions of characters over a fave like Pepe. I do not think that is the case.

 

[ZootandDingo]

Originally posted by frogboy4
I just don't see why all the "main group" of 7-10 characters need to be represented every year. I do understant taht the fan faves would need to be sprinkled in, but there are already enough big guns that have been green-lighted by Ken (as much as they can be approved right now) that we don't need to add unneccessary multiple versions of Sam the Eagle next year.

Well, and I can't speak for Palisades as they may have a different thinking on this, traditionally variants come about because a toy manufacturer is worried that if the main character(s) isn't represented, then a consumer may pass on whoever is available.

So, in this case, next year at some time a small boy may really get into The Muppets and want to start collecting the figures, but he may soon lose his interest if he doesn't see a Kermit or a Piggy.

I have no real problem with variants of characters as long as they make sense (ie-Dr. Bob, First Mate Piggy) and aren't crowding the space that an all-new character can go. But as I said, we don't need another Sam so soon.

 

[frogboy4]

But Kermit and Piggy are already listed in the line up. So are Fozzie and Gonzo. I donw see why any more of them need to be duplicated next year. It's not that I don't get your point - I just think it goes a little overboard with making third versions of series one characters.

 

[ZootandDingo]

Originally posted by frogboy4
But Kermit and Piggy are already listed in the line up. So are Fozzie and Gonzo. I donw see why any more of them need to be duplicated next year.

Exactly, and that's kind of the point I was making. As long as Palisades keeps the bigger stars available every year, and still leaving plenty of room for fresh characters, then older and newer collectors should be happy.

It's not that I don't get your point - I just think it goes a little overboard with making third versions of series one characters.

But why? As you said, Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, and Gonzo are already slated in 2003 assortments, and there is still plenty of room for new characters and other popular variations of the 2002 characters. I just don't see where the harm is in doing something like that for 2004 for those four characters.

I like Sam (the example we've been discussing), but I have never considered him to be a "big gun" in terms of Muppet licensing. When I worked for Warner Bros., they ranked all of the Hanna-Barbera characters in terms of marketability and recognizability as either A, B, or C characters. I would probably classify Sam as a B character. Unless it was something that either looked really cool or was a novel idea, I don't see a need to have another Sam figure in 2003. But in terms of characters like Kermit, Piggy, etc., they will always be in the mix somehow. That's just the nature of the toy beast, like it or not.

As I said, I wouldn't mind a new Kermit, or new Gonzo, etc. once a year, as long as they are interesting and true-to-character. But there is very little need for a new Sam, or a new Lew, or a new Crazy Harry every year.

 

[frogboy4]

Sam is considered by Palisades to be a big gun. I don't really consider him one either.

I see the need to at least include a Kermit and Piggy each year because of their status (though I still wish it were different) but I don't think that Fozzie, Gonzo, Animal, Rowlf, Scooter and Beaker need one every year. Maybe one of them, but I just think there are too many duplicates already. I'm all for new "classic" characters being introduced. If it's up to another Fozzie Bear coming out, I'd rather see Pepe etc.

Many people have been mentioning dupe-versions of Kermit, Piggy, Gonzo and Fozzie other than the ones that are slated to appear in 03. Reporter Kermit, Nurse Piggy (maybe a Motorcycle Piggy), Patrol Bear and Purple suited Ginzo (with a sweater version exclusive) have all been pretty much confirmed for 03 and people keep thinking up more ideas to rehash released characters while Pepe gets snubbed. I can understand it if there were a Lips in his place, but not a billionth version of Fozze Bear or Beaker. Just my view. Actually, I would still like to see Mildred and George.