Where are the older humans?

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

The double talk is what I found most problematic. If there had been some sort of press announcement similar to Sonia's where it was announced the following actors will not be returning/returning in reduced roles that would have been upfront. We would have heard from each actor and seen that they were OK with it. But as you said it was double talk. Are they fired? Are they retiring? I would begrudge none of them if they said - yeah I need to step back. So the announcement was a mess. And I'll say an odd misstep from the Workshop who are usually pretty good at this. My one other gripe - which is personal and may not be germane - is that there was no farewell. Jerry Nelson had a wonderful tribute episode. If, indeed, these characters are being retired why not have a street story perhaps with a block party. They could inter-mingle. Gordon and Susan could have a scene with Big Bird. Luis and Maria with Oscar. Bob with Prairie Dawn? (She seemed the most likely to take music lessons - also a nice send off for Fran Brill). What is the educational purpose? They could have figured something out. Gordon and Susan moving to Florida. Importance of friendship? The writers found ways to blend the reality of the show into the narrative and curriculum of the show. I think it is a missed opportunity. While maybe not with the poignancy of Mr. Hooper's death it would have been a classic episode out of the gate.

I am merely a fan, so I am sure there are many reasons why this did not happen. But would have been nice if it did. Hey, it still might.

But I think the big difference here is, Will Lee was still a big part of the show prior to his death, so it made sense for them to explain his absence. But with Maria, Gordon, Susan etc, they haven't been major characters for years, so most kids wouldn't even notice their absence. It would feel a bit odd for them to have a send-off episode if most of the target audience doesn't even know who they are.

 

[Oscarfan]

Given the continuity-less-ness of the show currently (even moreso than before), and the fact that there's less shows per season, it doesn't seem like they can do those types of episodes anymore; establishing new status quos and such. Like, there was no episode that introduced Mando to the neigborhood; he just kind of showed up.

 

[D'Snowth]

I kind of feel the same way as well.

Again, one thing we have to keep in mind is this: the show isn't made specifically for us, it's made for its target audience of pre-schoolers; they can't do things for our benefit.

 

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

Exactly! The show is not made just to cater to the older fans, the target demo is what's important. And let's face it: The main reason the classic cast members were still on the show for so long after they began to be phased out was because of the parents watching, not for the little kids.

 

[Censored]

But I think the big difference here is, Will Lee was still a big part of the show prior to his death, so it made sense for them to explain his absence. But with Maria, Gordon, Susan etc, they haven't been major characters for years, so most kids wouldn't even notice their absence. It would feel a bit odd for them to have a send-off episode if most of the target audience doesn't even know who they are.

Plus it would bring more attention to an incident and 3 people that Sesame Workshop is praying to God everyone forgets about as soon as possible.

 

[Censored]

Exactly! The show is not made just to cater to the older fans, the target demo is what's important. And let's face it: The main reason the classic cast members were still on the show for so long after they began to be phased out was because of the parents watching, not for the little kids.

And all this time I thought it was because they had talent and were great for children.

 

[D'Snowth]

Right, and unfortunately, their research is turning up that parents aren't even watching the show with their kids anymore, parents are more or less letting the show babysit them in a way.

Oddly enough though, they said this is why they were going to scale back on celebrities (because pre-schoolers don't know who they are) and parodies (because pre-schoolers don't understand them) . . . but so far, and by the looks of things to come, they really aren't scaling back on celebrities at all - parodies, on the other hand. . . .

Besides, SW does cater to older fans, just not with the actual show itself: the Old School DVDs were made specifically for us; likewise, SW routinely uploads classic bits on YouTube for us as well. But the show proper itself is specifically for the pre-schoolers, so they're going to have to cater the show based on what their target audience will respond to, whether we like it, agree with it, or not.

 

[Censored]

Right, and unfortunately, their research is turning up that parents aren't even watching the show with their kids anymore, parents are more or less letting the show babysit them in a way.

Oddly enough though, they said this is why they were going to scale back on celebrities (because pre-schoolers don't know who they are) and parodies (because pre-schoolers don't understand them) . . . but so far, and by the looks of things to come, they really aren't scaling back on celebrities at all - parodies, on the other hand. . . .

Besides, SW does cater to older fans, just not with the actual show itself: the Old School DVDs were made specifically for us; likewise, SW routinely uploads classic bits on YouTube for us as well. But the show proper itself is specifically for the pre-schoolers, so they're going to have to cater the show based on what their target audience will respond to, whether we like it, agree with it, or not.

Only one problem with that argument: You're going in with the assumption that what's good for kids and what's good for adults are mutually exclusive. For years, Sesame Workshop (CTW) was run by people who were smart enough to do both at the same time.

 

[D'Snowth]

Well, unfortunately, that's not the case anymore. SW is now run by business-minded people who are taking a more corporate approach with SST and its related properties and elements, and in fact, SST isn't even the only show or thing that's been affected by this: this isn't like it was back in the 70s, 80s, or even the 90s, where there were fewer options for anybody to enjoy entertainment, and thus, shows kind of had to be made in a way that could appeal to both kids and adults, because kids and adults often watched things together. This is why primetime shows back in the day had very little sex, swearing, or other objectionable material, because entire families were watching these shows; conversely, this is always why cartoons and other children's shows had wit, wordplay, banter, and sly material, because adults would be watching with the kids and needed something to appeal to them as well. Fast-forward to today, there are tons and tons of more options for everybody out there, and a lot of it is categorized into kids only and adults only, so when there's less of both worlds watching the same things, then of course that's going to have an affect on entertainment: this is why so many kids shows today are watered-down, obnoxious, and pandering, because adults are most likely not even watching with the kids, so they don't have to worry about holding their interest as well; conversely, this is also why primetime shows today are polluted with sex, violence, vulgarity, and other obscene subject matter, because clearly kids aren't going to be watching these things, so they can throw whatever they want to at adults because they can handle it.

Unfortunately, SST is not immune to any of this, and the thing about SST is that it's not only always relied on what their research and focus groups are indicating what kind of things their target audience are into today, but it's also kept up with the times . . . and let's face it, times change - that's something that's out of anybody's control. And also considering SST continues to face more and more competition from other preschool shows vying for kids attention, they're going to have to do what they can to keep their audience watching. This is why ATC happened in the first place: the face of preschool, educational television was becoming happier, fluffier, brighter, and zippier, so SST was cleaned up considerably and lost a lot of its original inner city grit as a result.

 

[Censored]

Well, unfortunately, that's not the case anymore. SW is now run by business-minded people who are taking a more corporate approach with SST and its related properties and elements, and in fact, SST isn't even the only show or thing that's been affected by this: this isn't like it was back in the 70s, 80s, or even the 90s, where there were fewer options for anybody to enjoy entertainment, and thus, shows kind of had to be made in a way that could appeal to both kids and adults, because kids and adults often watched things together. This is why primetime shows back in the day had very little sex, swearing, or other objectionable material, because entire families were watching these shows; conversely, this is always why cartoons and other children's shows had wit, wordplay, banter, and sly material, because adults would be watching with the kids and needed something to appeal to them as well. Fast-forward to today, there are tons and tons of more options for everybody out there, and a lot of it is categorized into kids only and adults only, so when there's less of both worlds watching the same things, then of course that's going to have an affect on entertainment: this is why so many kids shows today are watered-down, obnoxious, and pandering, because adults are most likely not even watching with the kids, so they don't have to worry about holding their interest as well; conversely, this is also why primetime shows today are polluted with sex, violence, vulgarity, and other obscene subject matter, because clearly kids aren't going to be watching these things, so they can throw whatever they want to at adults because they can handle it.

Unfortunately, SST is not immune to any of this, and the thing about SST is that it's not only always relied on what their research and focus groups are indicating what kind of things their target audience are into today, but it's also kept up with the times . . . and let's face it, times change - that's something that's out of anybody's control. And also considering SST continues to face more and more competition from other preschool shows vying for kids attention, they're going to have to do what they can to keep their audience watching. This is why ATC happened in the first place: the face of preschool, educational television was becoming happier, fluffier, brighter, and zippier, so SST was cleaned up considerably and lost a lot of its original inner city grit as a result.

The reason Sesame Street even ever existed is because it challenged the way things were typically being done at the time. They did not just blindly follow trends. That was when it was run on imagination, guts, and innovation. To paraphrase a wise man, "The heart and soul of the show are gone."