Where are the older humans?

[Censored]

Yes, it's always been ahead of it's time. For instance, no other show before them had such a diverse cast. But on the other side of things, would we have gotten a song like "Wet Paint" on the show today? No, because the song is too 80s. The show has to stay relevant and to do that they, yes they have to innovate, but at the same time they have to fit in with the times

It's not statistics, it's called observation.

Where are you observing to get the information? Statements without facts to back them up mean nothing.

 

[D'Snowth]

Actually, Sesame Street has always been more progressive than the times.

Okay, that I believe we can all agree on, SST has always been a very progressive, and at times somewhat subversive, series - so much so that in 1969, it was actually a big deal for TV audiences to see a cast that was literally half black and half white, in the same setting, as equals. Even Sonia Manzano said that Gordon and Susan seemed glamorous compared to how black people were traditionally depicted on TV back in those days, and at that time, I sure they were.

But, my point is, SST has always reflected the world around us as the decades has passed: when the 70s were all about polyester and mirror balls, you often saw Muppets dresses in leisure suits and dancing to disco (even the humans often wore bellbottoms and wide-collared shirts); 90s saw a lot of subgenres of music that had tropical vibes, and that's when SST reorchestrated its theme song to a calypso beat; and as little mom-and-pop stores began disappearing from the inner city landscape, Hooper's evolved from a little soda shop to a convenience store, and the Fix-It Shop disappeared and was replaced with the Mail-It Shop and later a laundromat. Stuff like this happens in the world all around us, so the show has to be able to make sure the kids watching can identify with the neighborhood and the atmosphere it embodies as the kind of neighborhood they may find in real life.

Where did you get these statistics?

It's just plain and simple observation as I've seen the world and the times change as I grew up over the years. There's no actual scientific research or data to back up my observation, but it's still an observation nonetheless.

I'm not saying you're wrong in claiming age discrimination, because I know it's out there: it's one of the reasons why my mom has never been able to get work these last several years, and it's also the main reason why my dad can't get work as anything other than a truck driver. Reverse age discrimination exists too: I have a friend who just recently turned thirty, and one of her jobs, most of her co-workers are older women, and she often finds herself getting more of the actual work dumped on her because they tell her she needs to help take a load off the older women. So, yeah, you do have a point . . . but so do we, and it seems like you can't and refuse to accept the points we've been making.

 

[Censored]

Okay, that I believe we can all agree on, SST has always been a very progressive, and at times somewhat subversive, series - so much so that in 1969, it was actually a big deal for TV audiences to see a cast that was literally half black and half white, in the same setting, as equals. Even Sonia Manzano said that Gordon and Susan seemed glamorous compared to how black people were traditionally depicted on TV back in those days, and at that time, I sure they were.

But, my point is, SST has always reflected the world around us as the decades has passed: when the 70s were all about polyester and mirror balls, you often saw Muppets dresses in leisure suits and dancing to disco (even the humans often wore bellbottoms and wide-collared shirts); 90s saw a lot of subgenres of music that had tropical vibes, and that's when SST reorchestrated its theme song to a calypso beat; and as little mom-and-pop stores began disappearing from the inner city landscape, Hooper's evolved from a little soda shop to a convenience store, and the Fix-It Shop disappeared and was replaced with the Mail-It Shop and later a laundromat. Stuff like this happens in the world all around us, so the show has to be able to make sure the kids watching can identify with the neighborhood and the atmosphere it embodies as the kind of neighborhood they may find in real life.
.

Elderly people are not fashion trends that have gone out of style.

 

[Censored]

So, yeah, you do have a point . . . but so do we, and it seems like you can't and refuse to accept the points we've been making.

If we were talking about any discriminating against any other group besides the elderly, there wouldn't even be a debate.

 

[Censored]

Still, I hope we can all at least agree that Bob, Gordon, and Luis should stay on the show. I'm sure anyone who loved Sesame Street would not want these 3 people to be treated unfairly. It's amazing when you realize that the producers, who fired them, were probably educated and entertained by them when they were kids. Let's all keep writing in asking them to do the right thing.

 

[D'Snowth]

Elderly people are not fashion trends that have gone out of style.

You completely missed my point.

If we were talking about any discriminating against any other group besides the elderly, there wouldn't even be a debate.

But you're the only one in this thread who keeps the debate going.

It's amazing when you realize that the producers, who fired them, were probably educated and entertained by them when they were kids. Let's all keep writing in asking them to do the right thing.

I'm sorry, but welcome to modern show business practices. In the past twenty to thirty years, show business has gotten more and more corporate, and that's something I can say is fact: Ken Levine, who has been a sitcom writer since the 70s, with shows like M*A*S*H, CHEERS, FRASIER, BECKER, WINGS, EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND, THE SIMPSONS, and others shows to his name, has a blog that he updates daily with anecdotes and experiences about the goings-on behind the scenes in the television industry, and the sad fact is, today's television landscape is all about corporate greed, not about the art or the quality. Even Andy Griffith has made the comparison between when he was working on his original sitcom in the 60s, and MATLOCK in the 80s: by the time he was doing MATLOCK, networks were taking over control of shows and how they were being produced, as opposed to letting the producers, writers, showrunners have their own creative control. Sid & Marty Krofft have also said that many of their shows back in the 70s were made mostly on luck and trust from network big wigs: the networks let them do their shows their way, but they know in this day and age, they'll never get a show done that way ever again (how they've managed to get Nick Jr. to let them do MUTT & STUFF is beyond me). Since we know that Sesame Workshop has a new CEO, new staff members, it's clear that many of the decisions gone into the show since then are mostly based on corporate agenda. . . . we should at least consider ourselves fortunate that SST managed to avoid corporate influence this long.

 

[Censored]

But you're the only one in this thread who keeps the debate going.
.

No problem with debating. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just not their own facts. What you said about children having less interaction with their grandparents these days is simply not true. The number of grandparents raising children are growing. Let's continue to celebrate age diversity.

Bottom line: While I don't know Bob McGrath, Roscoe Orman, and Emilio Delgado personally, they made me laugh and taught me for years through TV. My loyalties go to them over new corporate executives. If anyone feels differently, that is their choice.

 

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

Ken Levine, who has been a sitcom writer since the 70s, with shows like M*A*S*H, CHEERS, FRASIER, BECKER, WINGS, EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND, THE SIMPSONS, and others shows to his name, has a blog that he updates daily with anecdotes and experiences about the goings-on behind the scenes in the television industry

BTW, thanks so much for mentioning the blog on this thread and one of the Muppets threads. I just started reading it and i'm really really enjoying it

 

[D'Snowth]

I've been reading it for years, mainly got wind of it through a M*A*S*H forum I belong to years ago, but I've only recently (within the last couple of years or so) have been participating with his blog more in terms of commenting and submitting Friday questions (a few of which he's actually answered). At the beginning of the month, I shared my recent SINGLE CAMERA SITCOMS: THEN & NOW short with him on Facebook for his critique, but I don't believe he's looked at it - but oh well, other folks in TV I shared it with haven't appeared to look at it either, lol.

I digress, he definitely shares a lot of inside info, and just by following his blog over the years, I've gotten a better idea of just how sad the state of television is today in terms of scrutiny, executive meddling, corporate influence, and so on.

 

[Drtooth]

I've been saying for a while now, the show feels a little...deserted. Sure, they always had episodes where there were just a couple humans and Muppets, maybe one of each, but those were getting more frequent. And a lot of the time in recent years human characters are supplemented by celebrity guest stars. Sure, we'd get some episodes where the street was busy every so often with as many cast members, puppeteers, and extras as they can shove onto the set. But for the most part, they've managed to make bottle episodes of a show that's essentially always a bottle episode show. made them more bottley.

Heck, I don't think I've seen many human kids on the street this year either.

This sounds like it comes down to many things, ageism may be a factor, but the way I see it is this...

It's clear that Sesame Workshop is trying to scrimp all the money they can, and it seems a huge factor in Chris and Alan being on the show the most also has to do with availability, and trying to get as many episodes shot in as few days as they rent the studio as possible. When the older cast members just come in one day to do their routine "we still live here" 30 second cameo in one episode, it's not really cost effective. If Bob had a lot more screentime in recent years, I'd be far more annoyed by it like I am Luis (who really wasn't on the show until a season ago anyway) and Roscoe. I'm not saying it seems like those actors were moving on, but Loretta had a life outside the show and that's why she wasn't around much. Oddly, it seems that Luis and Susan were making small comebacks, making this come off a little nasty a move. As for Bob, the audience won't realize he's gone if he's just that guy who pops up every so often in the background.

Still...let them pop up every so often in the background. Sure, it's cheaper to let them not appear on the show, and a chunk of the audience in the age appropriate demographic thinks every Muppet is Elmo...they freaking think Mr. Potatohead from Toy Story is Elmo! I'm not kidding, I come from a bizarre experience. And to me, that's the bigger bias. The bias for characters that are easily marketable as plush toys and DVD's without having to pay for actor license rights. Remember, they call it show business for a reason.