When you need to rant...

[Sgt Floyd]

I think part of it is the old saying 'why does God let bad things happen to good people' for some, and they've becomed disillusioned. Others just find it really hard to believe that there is some unseen higher power because there's no solid proof.

Let's be honest here, the bible isn't proof. It's a book. Written by men. Yes, they say the men were inspired by god's voice, but it's still just a book. It's very easy to say that some higher power influenced you.

I could realistically argue that god himself inspired me to write this post and no one could argue with proof for or against it otherwise.

You're never going to be able to convince someone God exists if they don't believe in him already. I think this is also why non believers hate believers, because the vocal minority is rude about it and has to harass you and shove religion in your face. You're not following god's word by harassing someone and screaming that they're going to ****. You're just being a jerk.

Also, God's word DOES change. Different versions of the bible translate things differently. Plus, the interpretation changes with the time. Plus...do I need to mention how people pick and choose which concepts to follow and which ones they deem to be irrelevant? The bible was written as instructions yes, but it was written as instructions for a vastly different time period than we have now. Of course it's going to change with time to suit our modern needs.

 

[fuzzygobo]

I'm not here to shove religion down anybody's throat, or judge whether people believe or not.
People can still hate me for believing, but I'm not going to turn around and hate them.

I do know this much. I found peace in my thirties. It filled a hole nothing else ever can.
Life is too short (or too long) not to have peace. I've got mine, what about yours?

 

[D'Snowth]

I can see the point that Sarge is making, in that there are some particularly fanatic folks out there who feel the need to shove their ways, views, beliefs, what have you, down people's throats, and pretty much condemn them altogether for not agreeing with those views . . . although I won't go into specifics, I will say that I've noticed that certain denominations are more guilty of that than others.

But I still believe one of the main problems in this day and age is, as I've said before, it's the conservative Christians that give Christianity a black eye by painting a portrait of God as being a hateful entity while they go around and use up all their time and energy bashing certain groups of people simply for being who they are -- especially gay people. To me, it's as if they're saying, "If you want to come to God, you have to hate these people," which, of course, is going to turn people away from God, because how and why should we hate our fellow man just because of who and what they are? I mean, heck, Jesus mingled with leppers, prostitutes, the less fortunate, and basically reached out to all walks of life. Isn't that what Christians are supposed to do too? Apparently not, according to conservatives. The thing to remember is that while God hates sin, He does not hate sinners . . . and even that should be easy to understand: aren't there certain little quirks/habits/eccentricities/what have you that your friends or family have that you can't stand, but you still love them regardless of it? God loves all people. Jesus loves all people. Conservatives hate everybody who isn't straight, white, and wealthy. That seems very un-Christian to me.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

I'm not here to shove religion down anybody's throat, or judge whether people believe or not.
People can still hate me for believing, but I'm not going to turn around and hate them.

I didn't say you were. I was just making an observation on why I believe people are turning away from religion

 

[fuzzygobo]

I can see why religion would drive people away. Observing a lot of trappings and rituals, like the Scribes and Pharisees did, which Jesus was directly against.
Religion doesn't bring you peace, but having God in your heart does.

 

[Drtooth]

Why does the country get its morality from the least moral people there are?
Push God out of the picture, see for yourself what happens.

That's not quite the point I'm making. I'm talking about those who tend to speak with a higher moral standing who love to say how godless everyone else is and then goes around sexually harassing women (the head of Fox News), abusing prescription drugs (Rush Limbaugh), and overall speaking of moral absolutism when they're much closer to the villains of the bible, speaking only for the ultra-conservative part of Christian conservatism that completely removes anything remotely Christian about it. Social Darwinism and objectionism are actually pretty contradictory to what true Christianity is supposedly about. Meanwhile, it seems only local news manages to talk about anti-violence prayer vigils headed up by black community preachers. Ones that hate corrupt police brutality, the paranoid racist sniper's shooting spree, and their own gang violence just as much, if not even more than everyone else.

But again, religion wasn't part of my problem. Not part of the equation, not part of the discussion. Maybe another day I'll point out Evangelicals never wanted to be involved in politics, right or left, but some racist religious school managed to manipulate the movement because they didn't like how their college was going to lose their tax exemptions for refusing to admit black students. The Religious Right has always been a scam to shove emotional manipulation into voting for those who actually work against the interests of the common man. Again, that's a factor, and not my main point.

Back to the police brutality topic, I was merely mentioning the right wing news outlets, talk radio (which is somehow still a thing), right wing blogs, books, and "info"graphics on Facebook that are actively trying to stop us from having a conversation to diagnose a problem so it can be fixed. What really really ticks me off is how to further drive the point home that there is no problem and anyone who wants to have a nuanced, considerate conversation is stupid and should be tuned out, it's when they start giving factoids about how absolutely terrible these police shooting victims are by rattling off all the "horrible" things they've done, making it almost as if they're saying "We don't want to say that this person deserved to get shot, but we sure as crap want to insinuate it!" It's that moral absolutism of the purest black and white that gets me steamed.

I'm sure rational, reasonable people have the mind set of shades of gray. As in, if these guys were deemed worthy of prosecution, let them have due freaking process, they certainly as heck didn't deserve to be shot. What baffles the crap out of me is the same types who will always sound the alarm of government overreach when it comes to the size of a soda you can legally purchase or having a Nativity scene removed, are the same ones that have absolute trust and faith in the police when they shoot these guys. Uh...whut? Take the case of the large man who was killed when the cops tried to haul him in for selling single cigarettes. Where were those who would obviously say "a poor man died for having a nanny state regulation on the sale of tobacco?" When police departments were given a bloated budget to buy tanks and weapons and tools of war, where were the types that said "Holy CRAP! Martial Law!" Compliant in listening to moral absolutist propaganda to make sure they're darn angry about the wrong darn thing!

 

[D'Snowth]

Y'know, if certain morals, values, and decencies can be considered "outdated" because, "this is the 21st century," then why can't racism, political divide, and gay bashing be outdated either? Those things really need to be outdated moreso than anything.

 

[Drtooth]

Y'know, if certain morals, values, and decencies can be considered "outdated" because, "this is the 21st century," then why can't racism, political divide, and gay bashing be outdated either? Those things really need to be outdated moreso than anything.

While I don't want to have the big religious discussion, I'll hit the main points.

First off, completely agree with Sarge on this statement.

Let's be honest here, the bible isn't proof. It's a book. Written by men. Yes, they say the men were inspired by god's voice, but it's still just a book. It's very easy to say that some higher power influenced you.

No need to add to that. Even if the stories are actually based on historical events happening then, it's still things that happened then. We've come a long way as the human race since then. The main messages aren't irrelevant by any stretch, but historical in facts about not eating seafood, not eating pork unless the slaughtering is witnessed by someone who can confirm that it's safe to eat. heck, the don't eat oysters in a month with R in it meme doesn't freaking exist anymore, and that's something we lost with refrigeration half a century ago.

The reason religion sounds like it's become an outdated concept is because most of the off side, one off, foot notey stuff that fundamentalists believe in is. Most of religion is actually ingrained in common human decency. Don't kill anyone, don't hate anyone, don't screw around with someone else's spouse, and help out the less fortunate. And what do you think the more fundamental uber conservative types throw out? Yep. All that. It's more important to keep those footnotes in than the freaking rest of the holy scriptures. Killing others? Completely justified by such and such a footnote and or historical event that one time. Treating people right? Pffft! No way, they've been told to not like those people and found such a footnote that somehow can be construed as justification. Helping others? What?!?! And waste my hard earned time and or money? Maybe I'll go to a soup kitchen and pretend to wash already clean dishes to make it look like we're not screwing everyone under us.

Nope. It's all hate other races, hate gays, complain about how everyone younger is entitled but being far more entitled then they ever could be accused of being. And anyone calling them out on their bullcrap are somehow the eeeeeeeevil atheists and the real victims are the victimizers because they're totally not at all entitled little babies that have to share the world with others. Sure, I can see a lot of those dropping out of religion because "why does God allow so much suffering," but to me, the younger set is dropping out because of the minority of loud, arrogant, self-entitled, stuck in their ways types who are willing to shove those ways into the younger generations to make sure those ways never die out with horrible concepts like "tolerance" and "relevance" and "not being a complete d-bag." And yes, there are very militant atheists that are complete jerks too, but there are jerks in every religion, and those tend to poison the message.

But as I've been saying, how come we forgot the 80's? How come we forgot the last decade? We have the most immoral types not only claiming moral superiority, but use those holier than thou attitudes to spread some hateful UnChristian and UnAmerican messages through the guise of Patriotism and faith. The same types that said 9/11 was caused because gays were the same ones in the 80's scamming the elderly out of their money for salvation while having affairs and saying "the Devil Made me do it" like they were Flip Wilson. Also, the same ones that said "you know that one dictator that was never a threat to us that we helped bring into power? Well, if you don't want us to spend a fortune on a war that's unwinnable that's been proposed by the son of the guy who brought said dictator into power and then declared war on him the first time, you're a commie terrorist sympathizer that HATES America" are the same ones saying "No...no no. There's no such thing as white privilage, and there's no police brutality and racist police districts. And the guys that got shot probably deserve to die because they had 'marah joo wanna' in their possession." WHY? Why are types like Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and Glen Beck still being taken seriously? They're loudmouth buffoons that thrive on paranoia, hate and anger to shape the world into the terrible state its in. The Brexit is mostly due to the horrible far right tabloids published in the UK who are owned by the same guy who owns the news network people continue to listen to when they've been proven to have a massive bias. And treat women like sex objects.

 

[D'Snowth]

I'm sick of these shootings, I'm sick of these protests, I'm sick of these politicians, and I'm sick of this country. If the world's going to end, just end it already. Put us all out of our misery.

 

[Drtooth]

What I'm sick of is that we have the means to fix pretty much all our problems, but we can't because some rich anus somewhere will lose a tiny amount of money in the short run...well, that's glib, but that's essentially the whole of the problem.

What's going on isn't a simple this or that problem. This is a race relations/gun control/police brutality/mental health/bias 24 hour media issue and even then fixing one of the problems could go a long, long way. And yet, we have those who want to fix the problem but are either powerless to do anything or too darn chicken to, and those who don't want to solve problems because either someone's profiting off these problems, someone is likely to lose money, and good old fashion American Exceptionalism sweeping problems under the rug unless it's something they personally don't like and they'll never let you hear the end of it.

To me, the problems are thus...

• There's no level of accountability on the police officers or police departments that shoot unarmed black men, and the anger isn't just that it happens, the anger is that no one's being punished, and i totally don't count "paid administrative leave" as a punishment. At least don't pay them when they're suspended.
• NO ONE needs an AK-47 or armor piercing bullets outside of combat. Heck, armor piercing bullets shouldn't even be allowed in combat.
• To say the least, angry types should be considered a mental health risk and shouldn't be allowed to horde combat weaponry, let alone buy a couple hand guns.
• Like I said in the last post, while I don't think taking away the free speech of editorial figures in news media is going to do anything but make them even more belligerent, we have to realize these guys are profiting off of tragedy in a dangerous way. We don't accept the behavior of scammers that run fake charities off of tragedies like this, we sure as crap shouldn't accept them rushing out and publishing their conspiracy theorist/false prophet/hateful ramblings.
• Also, we have to realize these are the same types that have been, time and time again, been disastrously wrong about issues like this. Why are we listening to the guys that said, "relax! EVERYONE loves the completely justified and perfectly planned out Iraq War, and if they don't they all be teh stoopits?" Why are we listening to the "Hey! We need total fiscal collapse and the ruination of a major country because we don't agree with the president's plans to fix the crap we were pushing that actually did lead the country to ruin."
• Protest groups need to be more careful with branding. There's no central "Black lives matter," and unfortunately a small amount of incredibly angry people will ruin the best of intentions of peaceful, rational people.
• And for the heck of it, just freaking exile Wayne LaPierre. D-bag has a Napoleon complex, give him a Napoleon punishment.

And I'll add this... it isn't just this country that's completely fragged up. Brexit happened, let's not forget. Then there's the case of the French "terrorist" (read: whiny little *&^&% who got upset that beating the crap out of his wife somehow made her leave for some reason, and anger issues cost him his job). The world is going to crap because those who say its going to crap are doing everything in their power to turn it to crap, inadvertently or not.