When you need to rant...

[Dominicboo1]

I reread some old pages about suicide jokes and other terrible jokes. It reminds me of this "joke" from the overall meh special How Murray Saved Christmas. There's a joke about a little girl giving Grandpa a stroke.... need I say more?

 

[Drtooth]

I thought that special was quite brilliant, but then again, you kinda have to like Simpsons and Family Guy style humor to really like it. On the contrary, I thought it was the best special I've seen since the Prep and Landing series.

Death is a very dark and somber subject, sure. But those kinds of jokes can indeed be funny, but you have to do them exactly right or they'll come off mean spirited and awful. Or even worse... redundant. Like the movie Igor. The running gag was a suicidal rabbit that happened to be immortal. If they didn't cast Steve Buschemi in that role, it wouldn't have worked. The fact that he was so broken down and he was more annoyed by it than genuinely miserable took a lot of the sting out of it. Then of course there's that Ren and Stimpy cartoon where the ghost commits suicide and becomes a human. You can't tell me that wasn't one of the funnier moments in a Games cartoon.

Then there's the horrible example of the thankfully long since cancelled after a short run "The Class." They had this one character (played by the guy who plays Mitchel on Modern Family) that always attempted suicide and was either interrupted or something went wrong with it. And they did it so wrong that it was painfully offensive both in subject matter and calling it comedy. His character arc was things getting better, but by then they botched it up horrendously.

 

[D'Snowth]

Okay, seriously, what is the deal with flannel? Honestly, what is with this fabric? All it does it just shred and tear up! Why bother making any kind of clothing out of it when it's just going to fall apart? Oh, I get it... because if it does, that means you'll have to buy more, and when you buy more, you're putting more money into their pockets... I get it now.

But seriously, I'm going to have to switch to cotton jammies, I can't keep buying new jammies every other year because they keep tearing up.

 

[D'Snowth]

I know I've got something stuck in my throat, I can feel it, and I have for months now, but it's like no matter how much I swallow, eat, drink, hack, almost induce vomitting, it never goes away, and I have no idea what it could be, other than it feels like some kind of really tiny food particle or something that doesn't want to release itself from somewhere in the vicinity of my uvula.

 

[mr3urious]

I know I've got something stuck in my throat, I can feel it, and I have for months now, but it's like no matter how much I swallow, eat, drink, hack, almost induce vomitting, it never goes away, and I have no idea what it could be, other than it feels like some kind of really tiny food particle or something that doesn't want to release itself from somewhere in the vicinity of my uvula.

Could it be a buildup of phlegm back there? Happens to me a lot.

 

[Drtooth]

I think I've absolutely had it with so called animation "fans" that do that... you know, everything new is bad because I'm old and comfortable to give anything a chance. For the first time in my life I'm almost glad my dreams of animation never panned out. What's the point of going through the trouble of killing yourself to get a cartoon out only to have a bunch of basement dwellers whine about your stuff because it isn't the first two seasons of Animaniacs or Dexter or something?

Quality is NOT matter of taste. I don't like modern horror films. In stopped complaining about them a decade ago because I realized other people enjoy them and their welcome to them. I HATE Friends, but I respect the cultural impact it had.

I'm going to get personal. I've wasted a third of my life trying to become an animator/cartoonist and my fruits are nothing but a barely visited Deviant Art page that I'm all too happy to contribute to. By all means, I should hate the crap out of the entire field. But I'm not bitter. On the contrary. I LOVE seeing new things by people who actually fulfilled their dreams. This is art to me. I'm delighted to see other people's visions. I try very hard not to think I have a personal ownership over them. Things get cancelled unfairly. That's what happens. I'm not going to blame some cartoon for some other show's downfall. I did that as a kid. That's what kids do. Blame the popularity of something on something else.

But really. If you can't find enjoyment in current animation, that's your mind telling you you've gotten old. I'VE gotten old. I'm too old for this crap and I still love it. I've no excuse.

 

[mr3urious]

I think I've absolutely had it with so called animation "fans" that do that... you know, everything new is bad because I'm old and comfortable to give anything a chance. For the first time in my life I'm almost glad my dreams of animation never panned out. What's the point of going through the trouble of killing yourself to get a cartoon out only to have a bunch of basement dwellers whine about your stuff because it isn't the first two seasons of Animaniacs or Dexter or something?

A lot of then-new cartoons I hated as a teen I ended up enjoying once I re-watched them later on down the line. And yes, I still watched cartoons even when I was "too old" for them. So sue me.

And I'll say it again: to me, that kind of "all stuff today sucks" attitude implies that nothing new should ever be made ever and they should just show the old stuff for all eternity, which would make for a very boring entertainment landscape if you ask me.

I'm going to get personal. I've wasted a third of my life trying to become an animator/cartoonist and my fruits are nothing but a barely visited Deviant Art page that I'm all too happy to contribute to. By all means, I should hate the crap out of the entire field. But I'm not bitter. On the contrary. I LOVE seeing new things by people who actually fulfilled their dreams. This is art to me.

Not to sound like a sycophant, but I enjoy your dA work a lot and I'd like to see you get a career in animation someday, even though it would be a cold day in Tartarus before that even happens.

But really. If you can't find enjoyment in current animation, that's your mind telling you you've gotten old. I'VE gotten old. I'm too old for this crap and I still love it. I've no excuse.

It's all about seeing them from the POV of the target audience to get the best enjoyment out of them. Heck, that's how I was able to get into toons like Adventure Time, Friendship is Magic, and Phineas & Ferb. I failed to do that before, and I missed out on a lot of good stuff from the not-too-distant past.

 

[D'Snowth]

I've said it before, but really my problem with animation (or really, many shows today) is that there just really isn't any meeting of the minds anymore. Sure, many cartoons of the 90s were just as absurd as many cartoons today are, but back then, cartoons had something for everybody, and as mentioned in another thread, there was plenty to keep the kids entertained, but there was also a lot of humor and wordplay for adults that went over the kids heads. Nowadays, it's like cartoons are split into two categories: kids only and adults only. Kids cartoons seem rather watered down, silly (in a bad way), fluffy, and conducive to brain-cell dampening; adult cartoons seem to always forego storytelling and character development and just go purely for shock value and what they can get away with as far as content goes (seriously, TBS has been promoting the heck out of AMERICAN DAD! simply for the "edgier" content, though I don't know how much edgier Seth MacFarlane's work can get).

That, and just because of my plain insanity, I begrudge CN for merchandising the heck out of their cartoons since KND (with PPG and Dexter being the only exceptions to the rule), when prior to that, we were lucky if a CN series got even a fast-food deal . . . when Taco Bell and Hardee''s came out with COW AND CHICKEN toys, and Subway came out with toys for SHEEP IN THE BIG CITY, COURAGE THE COWARDLY DOG, and ED, EDD N EDDY, I snatched them up lemme tell ya (and I don't even like Hardee's or Subway's food)!

 

[Drtooth]

(seriously, TBS has been promoting the heck out of AMERICAN DAD! simply for the "edgier" content, though I don't know how much edgier Seth MacFarlane's work can get).

They can say the sh word. If anything, it's slightly less edgy because they had to tone down the violence. Personally, I'm glad they were able to find an outlet for this series because it's by far better than the lazy Family Guy writing. They honestly don't have to do much with that series. It's popular enough to not give a crap. I'm waiting for the episode where they just have a 20 minute Conway Twitty cutaway. Though I'll say that I'm mixed about the new AD's. Somehow Stan became a complete idiot, and that took away the depths they were giving the character since the second season. But I do like the plotlines so far. And they finally, after seasons and seasons of putting it off, they showed Francine's sister... even though the thing about her being adopted and Japanese seems to barely be hinted at if anything.

That, and just because of my plain insanity, I begrudge CN for merchandising the heck out of their cartoons since KND (with PPG and Dexter being the only exceptions to the rule), when prior to that, we were lucky if a CN series got even a fast-food deal . . . when Taco Bell and Hardee''s came out with COW AND CHICKEN toys, and Subway came out with toys for SHEEP IN THE BIG CITY, COURAGE THE COWARDLY DOG, and ED, EDD N EDDY, I snatched them up lemme tell ya (and I don't even like Hardee's or Subway's food)!

Unfortunately, the KND stuff wasn't quite successful. It was made by like a 20th party toy company. And While I agree it sucks that a lot of other CN properties never got a toy line, KND was pretty toyetic. You had vehicles and weird weaponry. I don't see many of the other CN shows gaining anything but standard figure lines. Then again, other than one vehicle, so wasn't the KND line.

What bugs me is that Gumball appears to be CN's favorite show. I love how dark and subversive it's become. But the only merchandise available in the states is like a comic book tie in and a zipper up backpack plush that I had to go to at least 3 Party City stores to find. And they're the only ones that have it. On the other hand, I'm annoyed how poor the distribution of Mattel's CN line from 2007 was. Like a KayBee exclusive just before the store went under. I was able to get an Ed riding a toilet cheap before the line completely vanished from the low prices.

And I'll say it again: to me, that kind of "all stuff today sucks" attitude implies that nothing new should ever be made ever and they should just show the old stuff for all eternity, which would make for a very boring entertainment landscape if you ask me.

That's my biggest problem. That and the fact that some generations defend the stupidest crap out there. I love the heck out of Animaniacs, don't get me wrong, but it seems that every show must be that level. And if it was, Animaniacs wouldn't be special and stuck in a field of poor imitations. I have no doubt in my mind the Nephews in Quack Pack are somehow patterned after the Warners. Then there was that time in the 90's where everything copied Ren and Stimpy. And I kinda liked it, but it made Ren and Stimpy less special. There are three things I can say about animation today...

• I've never seen so many diverse, experimental shows before. Sure, there are shows with similarities in art style, but that's about it. There's an unfortunate trend of less cartoons being produced, but it's working to their advantage. No weak adaptions of lame movies or video games kiddied down to the wrong audience.
• We're lucky we have cartoons at all, considering how many live action kid coms are in production. Luckily this isn't the 2005-2009 era when everyone was purposely bombing their animated programming for completely identical programming because one channel had a string of lucky hits. While I wish CN would have more varied programming, especially in the middle of the day, there aren't any Discovery Kids knockoffs. Nick disappoints me with their nonstop kidcom machine. But as long as TMNT sells toys, at least that's safe.
• I don't get this whole "they're not writing stuff for adults anymore" fallacy. The innuendos are still there, the inappropriate jokes are still there... they're also in the strangest of places. Does anyone expect Disney to have enough crap pushed past the radar? I'm shocked (and delighted) by how much Gravity Falls gets away with. Not to mention that both Star and the Forces of Evil and Wander over Yonder used the same "horse" joke. Maybe now it's just too common.

And don't get me wrong. I love old stuff a LOT. And indie animation as well. But my problem with some of the most beloved older stuff? Some of it was only good for a few seasons. Ren and Stimpy (and this is generous on my part) was good up to the second season of John K's firing. PPG had a really rotten final season (minus Aspirations. That was a classic), especially when they turned the Mayor into a mentally challenged baby. Toast of the Town is painful to watch. Even Dexter was only good the first 2, 3 seasons. While there are shows that were indeed good to the very end. I honestly don't think Freakazoid would have been any good past the second season where it ended anyway. What made that show special was how screwed up it was behind the scenes. The second season slowly introduced structure in story and joke telling. Not that it's inferior, but the spontaneity was fading.

 

[fuzzygobo]

From a little bit of what I've seen, the thing about animation that drives me nuts is kids that post on YouTube some half-a**ed attempts of shooting with their phones. Low frame rates, almost no movement (if the mouth moves, you got action!), no storyline, no character development, nothing to hang your hat on.

If it were possible, I'd like to see people do what I did. Take a college course in animation or filmmaking. Get to work with real equipment. (Back in my day, all we had to work with was silent Super 8mm, but learning the mechanics is essential). Our professor was a guy named Mickey Siporin, who in the early 80's did some animation for Sesame Street, and later for one of Nick's earliest offerings, Turkey TV. His experience was pure gold.

I've seen some of your work on dA too. Pretty decent. Even if you never reach the critical mass of Disney or WB, if you're proud of it (and rightfully so), that's what matters most.