What year did it all change for the worst?

[mikebennidict]

Funny thing though, Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, an equally successful educational show for children, never felt the need to change with the times, yet it's still being rerun today and its benefit for today's children is completely recognized. Guess it ultimately comes down to the philosophy of the people who run the programs.

yeah. And it also probably the type of show the both of them are. SS though does deal with feelings and relations it's still probably more grammer and Mr. Rogers is mainly on feelings. Sometimes I question what the experts think and it's OK to do that. I'm sure they're not always right. I mean I watched SS at age 2. I couldn't of been the only one. But who knows.

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Funny thing though, Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, an equally successful educational show for children, never felt the need to change with the times, yet it's still being rerun today and its benefit for today's children is completely recognized. Guess it ultimately comes down to the philosophy of the people who run the programs.

I can fully agree with that. I guess I just don't have as much of a problem with there philosophy.

 

[JimmyGillentine]

My two kids, Mallory who is 11 and my son Noah who is 8, where with me this weekend and I let them watch my copy of SS Old School. They laughed at all of the funny skits and loved the old school SS. My daughter then told me that SS sure was better when I was a kid! Maybe by trying to improve somethings they really hurt the show in some ways.

 

[DTF]

I agree about them running out of ways to have the adults miss Snuffy - I don't remember him as much in the "adutls missing him" mode, since it was the erly to middle 1970s. There's only so much you can do, and they handled it in a neat way.

I think the biggest thing I notice is the format change, but I think any time creators die, it leaves a huge void that is probably the biggest reason for that change; Fred Rogers, obviously, was the main force behind Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

Jim Henson and the others were not only great performers, but visionaries to be able to create Sesame Street and keep things going so well. What I wonderis, what happens when the current crop of performers pass on. I'm not sure about her health, but it seems pretty clear that Susan is being phased out. When some of the older adults pass on, what happens? Do the people at SW have the vision to keep things going and create a new generation? Or, maybe the better question is, how much are these people (The actors and the last of the old-time Muppet performers like Carroll Spinney (sp?)) still involved?

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Well, theres a lot to be taken into consideration here. Sesame is targeted at 2 to 4 year old's now for whatever reason. And you're kids and 8-11 JG. I mean their taste could have changed sense they were the right age for the show, or like you said, it's probably just better then even a couple years ago when they were younger.

I guess I should say that I don't totally dissagree with there philosophy and this is just my Opinion here, but even if the old show is better, I don't think they would be on the air today if they didn't change things around. But sense the show is like an expireiment any way, thay will continue to changs thing's, get rid of new things, bring back old things and visa versa and just fiddle around with the show in general. This ahow was made to mess with in the first place. Maybe thay could make it bette then it is right now, but as long as thay find somthing that works and is affective, then I guess that's what count's then. I mean if six million perschoolers whatch it every day and their parents are pleasd with the results, I say give um what thay want.

 

[CensoredAlso]

It's just that popularity doesn't equal quality. Millions of teenagers listen to violent music, it doesn't mean they should. (And no, I'm not comparing SS to violent music).

To me, if a quality product is no longer popular, then you try harder to convince people. You don't change the quality of your work to please the audience. But, that's the TV industry for you.

But I'm not going to get into that discussion again.

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Right, it is hard to keep that kind of quality for that many year's. Ithink the show has change slowly form one decade to another more then it get's credit for. But it just that it has so much history to it, so it's hard to make a call for a falling point. But the relity is in ordered to compete with the television maket out there, it has to make these nessarry changes for better or worse. But I'm not about to say six million people are wrong either.

 

[CensoredAlso]

But I'm not about to say six million people are wrong either.

I guess that's our difference, I have no problem saying that. Lol

 

[Censored]

I mean if six million perschoolers whatch it every day and their parents are pleasd with the results, I say give um what thay want.

But if it comes down to that, didn't a large number of children watch Sesame Street through the 70's and 80's? And weren't parents pleased with the results in those decades too? If the old format had not produced positive results in entertainment and education, I doubt that the show would have lasted past 1969 when the whole idea was very much an experiment.

 

[minor muppetz]

But the #1 worst change I feel is not SW's fault. I guess you can tell what I'm thinking of.... the lessening appearances of Kermit. Other than Do the Rubber Duck, he hasn't appeared in a new episode, even in an older skit. Reruns of the Hurricane episode don't count. Heck, I was surprised they used "African Alphabet" for the opening of the Documentary.

Sesame Workshop can distribute whatever it owns with Kermit however it wants (I think). SW has permission from Disney. SW just chooses not to show very much Kermit in new episodes.

And there haven't been very many new Kermit sketches on Sesame Street since Jim Henson's death in 1990. Even though Steve Whitmire took over the character later that year, Steve Whitmire didn't perform Kermit again (at least not as far as I know) untill The Muppet Christmas Carol in 1992. And when he began performing Kermit, he didn't perform on Sesame Street. Steve Whitmire would take over as Ernie in 1993, but even then, I don't think Steve Whitmire spent very much time performing on Sesame Street a year for a few years, untill at least 1997. In Elmo Saves Christmas, Whitmire performed Kermit, but I don't think he performed Ernie in that special, since Ernie didn't talk in it. I don't know if he needed time to grow into the role of Ernie, or if he was too busy with other productions (The Animal Show with Stinky and Jake, Muppets Tonight, etc) to perform on Sesame Street as often as the other performers. I think that his Sesame Street schedule might have started out something like Frank Oz's schedule. Even after Steve Whitmire began performing Ernie on a much more regular basis, he hasn't performed many other Sesame Street characters. I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Whitmire and Carol Spinney have performed the exact same number of characters on Sesame Street.

Eventually, Steve Whitmire began performing soem Kermit scenes on Sesame Street, including appearances in the episodes where Slimey lands on the moon and comes back, a sketch where Grover tries to sell Kermit a flashlight (Muppet Wiki mentions two skits where Whitmire performed Kermit, with the other one being about light and dark and featuring Grover, but I'm not sure if these are actually the same skit or different), Kermit reporting on the hurricane, and Kermit introducing the sogn Ev'rybody Be Yo'self (the last two appearnces mentioend were actually done after Henson sold the rights to the Sesame Street characters, and before Disney got the rights).

Ironically, whether Whitmire slowly began performing Ernie on a much more regular basis or if he always performed Ernie regularly, it seems like Steve Whitmire (and Eric Jacopson) performs on Sesame Street less now, maybe because he performs Kermit who is owned by Disney. I know that Henson would have worked aroudn his schedule more, but I'm not sure if Disney is working around the schedule as much, or if Disney is giving Whitmire so much work as a performer that he doesn't have as much time to perform on Sesame Street. Back in 2004, when Sesame Street was celebrating it's anniversary, Ernie, Bert, and Grover were all appearing in street stories and apeparing in a lot of new sketches, and even in the years earlier they appeared frequently on the street thanks to having new performers who weren't as busy (I beleive Jacopson began performing Frank Oz's characters after Henson sold it's ownership of the Sesame Street Muppets). These characters also had major roles in direct-to-video productions such as What's the Name of That Song?, A Celebration of Me, Grover!, and Happy Healthy Monster, but now these characters have gone back to appearing in inserts only. I think in the last two years there have only been a handful of new skits with Ernie, Bert, and Grover (and Frank Oz has performed Grover in a few newer skits).