Vault of Puppets Lawsuit

[Buck-Beaver]

No, you're right. The rule of thumb is generally if you're a fan and you make something for your own personal use they are not going to use (some companies like Lucasfilm have made this an officially policy). As soon as you sell it (like Vault of Puppets) or use it to promote a product or service (like the daycare did with the Disney illustrations) then they will probably sue you.

It's also worth noting that selling puppets on ebay that are original but calling them "Muppet style" as many builders do could be construed as trademark infringement (under the strictest interpretation of the law) because you are using a registered trademark to help you advertise a commercial product. The only way to determine or prove that if you're sued unfortunately is to fight it out in court.

 

[practicecactus]

.. The rule of thumb is generally if you're a fan and you make something for your own personal use they are not going to use (some companies like Lucasfilm have made this an officially policy). As soon as you sell it (like Vault of Puppets) or use it to promote a product or service (like the daycare did with the Disney illustrations) then they will probably sue you.

I'm only aware of Lucasfilm actually getting nasty toward one replica stormtrooper maker. It was a guy who was claiming copyright ownership of the designs because he was contracted for the first movie, I think, and that's when the lawyers attacked.
Generally they turn a blind eye to small operations, I reckon, mainly because of the 501st who protect the image and branding, more often than not people creating better props than original screen used props.
And yes they get sold and resold.

It's interesting to see the henson lawyers taking action now though.

 

[MGov]

It's interesting to see the henson lawyers taking action now though.

Not the Henson lawyers, the Disney lawyers.

I'm sure it's been it's been in the works a long time coming so that Disney's legal team could collect a mountain of evidence against them.

And having gotten into arguments over this here and at another now defunct puppet message board, I can honestly say it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Sorry, I'll wipe up the dripping sarcasm later.


edited to add: And $2300 for Miss Piggy? Who's gonna pay that?

 

[CoOKiE]

I have to say this really stinks. I dunno the guy, but he provided his talent to make dreams come true.

You can say what you want about the situation. But i myself always wanted a muppet. I have no training, so i cant to the best when it comes to replicas, and alot feel the same way.

I really think that Fozzie, Miss Piggy were outragous. But Kermit himself was crazy too. For one, i watched him raise and decrease his price on Kermit... but hes simple to make.

Not REALLY simple... but he doesn't have much that should make him so expansive.

I tried Ernie... and i wanted to cry lol. He came out HORRIBLE. I've made puppets of my own in the past and one was too thin for my arm. So, makin Ernie, it brought back memories, so i made him wider... but TOO wide and his head is HUGE lol. Anyone can see his likeness. Its just his heads too big.

I also worked on Cookie, and wanna work on a Kermit... but i'm afride to mess up.

Anyway... i wouldn't want someone stealing my work, to make money off of something i could do... at the same time... its really hard for Disney to sell their puppets for us dreamers... because some people will use them to promote their own things... and thats why they can't.

But, its like watching a Hero get taken down. I wasn't happy about their prices... but yes i saw them as a hero to us dreamers.

 

[muppetguy]

I second that, Cookie. There's a demand for this and always has been. I'm sorry, but if Disney isn't going to make them for the fans, it's nice to see someone who can. For the dreamers...

 

[ravagefrackle]

I have to say this really stinks. I dunno the guy, but he provided his talent to make dreams come true.

You can say what you want about the situation. But i myself always wanted a muppet. I have no training, so i cant to the best when it comes to replicas, and alot feel the same way..

well lots of people like Hand guns and dont have lisences or the proper training, ,lots of people like controlled substances, lots of people like lots of things, but we live in a society of laws, and just because you and a few other people want something doesnt make it it right or legal,

I really think that Fozzie, Miss Piggy were outragous. But Kermit himself was crazy too. For one, i watched him raise and decrease his price on Kermit... but hes simple to make.

Not REALLY simple... but he doesn't have much that should make him so expansive...

But, its like watching a Hero get taken down. I wasn't happy about their prices... but yes i saw them as a hero to us dreamers.

wow are you really complaing about the price of a hand made illegal replica being sold essentialy on the black market , and you are upset that it cost more than one hundred dollars,

aside from the fact that supply and demand are pretty basic concepts in any economy, do u think real muppets cost less? do you think any pro is going to make a custom made original creation for less?

 

[MGov]

But, its like watching a Hero get taken down. I wasn't happy about their prices... but yes i saw them as a hero to us dreamers.

"Hero"?

Dude, you need to choose your words a little better.

The guy is a thief.

 

[rtgentry]

wwjd.... thats j for jim..

It really doesnt matter because he is not here and henson doesnt own the muppets so, basically I say mind your own business. Both ways for that matter. Copyright laws protect someones idea or product. I dont always agree with the law. But I am not going to argue it knowing its not going to change. Just accept it or not.

sorry thats my two cents

its no secret what I think on the matter

 

[frogboy4]

I can’t speak for him, of course, but I never felt Jim Henson wanted such posers or realistic Muppet puppets out there. Still, that hasn’t kept the idea of owning one a lifelong dream! I do think FAO’s Whatnot Workshop would be something Jim would have liked. It inspires creativity.

We’re lucky to have the Muppet posers (with or without Fozzie and Miss Piggy to round them out). I can’t fault Vault of Puppets in filling a need that fans wanted, but I can fault him for turning a profit. If he just charged for the materials and made these discreetly that would be one thing. It’s still illegal, but closer to tearing off a mattress tag than mass marketing bootleg copies of The Muppet Movie.

The thing is, he officially advertised these and profited from them. That’s not okay. I still want me a Fozzie Bear. Don’t you think I’ve felt like pulling a bank-job and commissioning Vault to make me the whole Muppet Theater cast? I just couldn’t do that. Hey, if I hit the lottery I’d hire a puppet builder to create a private collection. Still, illegal and very unlikely.

Since there is no Copyright Police, Disney must defend this infringement with their notorious lawyers. See, if they allow such rampant disregard for intellectual property with one source a judge might allow it for others. It is rare, but it could happen. I feel sad about this, but it happened much later than expected.

My dream is that commercial Muppet replicas fall into the hands of a company that can actually get them to the customers! I don’t care who’s making them as long as it is legal.

 

[rtgentry]

I am sorry if that sounded rude. Its just getting old hearing about this as much as it is politics