Using webcam for puppet monitor

[Melonpool]

Sigh...

I'm getting a little frustrated here. I ask a question and everyone answers an entirely different question. I know that monitor work is important. I have used them before and I have used them in the non-mirrored (Muppet) way. But I'm pretty rusty and would like to brush up and improve these skills.

In the years since I did the monitor work, however, I lent my camera to a friend who constantly borrows it back again everytime I need it. My thought was that it might be cheaper and easier for me to go out and buy a webcam and set up a makeshift monitor (especially since the Apple isights seem to have a very quick refresh rate), but before I shelled out $120, I wondered if anyone else had ever tried this and if it was even worth it.

I gather this anser is "no," considering everyone that has responded to this question has in fact answered the question "do I really need to use a monitor?"

Steve

 

[Blink]

Sigh...

I'm getting a little frustrated here. I ask a question and everyone answers an entirely different question. I know that monitor work is important. I have used them before and I have used them in the non-mirrored (Muppet) way. But I'm pretty rusty and would like to brush up and improve these skills.

In the years since I did the monitor work, however, I lent my camera to a friend who constantly borrows it back again everytime I need it. My thought was that it might be cheaper and easier for me to go out and buy a webcam and set up a makeshift monitor (especially since the Apple isights seem to have a very quick refresh rate), but before I shelled out $120, I wondered if anyone else had ever tried this and if it was even worth it.

I gather this anser is "no," considering everyone that has responded to this question has in fact answered the question "do I really need to use a monitor?"

Steve

Hi Steve,

I am sorry you are feeling frustrated. I am sure that was not anyone's intention.

I want to point out my first response was to "practicecactus", that is why I posted.

My second post was in response to your post about wanting something cost effective.

I never responded to your first point because I really don't have any experience with a webcam. So in short my answer to your first post is "no". I have never used this and I have no idea how effective it would be. As far as what I do know about cost effective options, I have already shared that information.

As for other people, I can not speak for them. I assume they were simply responding to other points that came up in this discussion. I actually think that there was some good information that came out of the posts so I thank you for starting the thred. I think what we have here is much better than a whole bunch of people posting and simply saying "No. I have never used a web cam".

Again I am sorry if I added to your frustration. But I thank you for starting the thred.

 

[Melonpool]

Thanks, blink!

I didn;t mean to come off as a little ***** in my posts... it wasn't my intention.

Truth be told, I'm thinking a little ahead of myself here. I need to work on my monitor work and I was thinking about getting an isight, so I was trying to kill two birds with one stone and see if anyone else had had any luck doing something like this.

After about the third post aboiut whether or not to use a monitor, I felt like my original question was left by the wayside. I agree -- the posts are more interesting the way it turned out, but it's not getting me any closer to my original question...

Steve

 

[Ryan]

After about the third post aboiut whether or not to use a monitor, I felt like my original question was left by the wayside. I agree -- the posts are more interesting the way it turned out, but it's not getting me any closer to my original question...

But your original question is pretty much the same as the one we've been talking about. There would be no difference from webcam and camcorder. They both show the mirrored image. Webcam will just give lower quality. So, yes, buy a webcam.

 

[standay]

the posts are more interesting the way it turned out, but it's not getting me any closer to my original question...

Steve

Steve, I think you'll find that the inherent digital delay in any computer-based video setup would make it hard to use for your intended purpose. All you could do is try it and see if the refresh rate is fast enough for you. If you can get hold of a normal video setup that will work for sure.

I'm surprised they don't use reverse scan monitors now, I guess I should have said 30 years ago at the public TV station I was at we always used a reversed monitor for the puppets. My guess is that by using a "normal" monitor all the time the advantage would be that you could go into any studio anywhere and be able to perform with their setup without taking a special monitor with you.

Stan

 

[practicecactus]

now why would you quit just because something is more challenging, ???you wont get far in life with that attitude.

That second line was necessary. I don't appreciate you making some snide little assumption about me, ok?

Secondly, I like to plan something out to be as effective as possible, It does not make sense to ME to do it the way "everyone else does it".
Its not a natural reflex to do something opposite.
I dont particualry care for the "this is the way the muppets have done it, so thats the way you have to do it" attitude.

Heaven forbid someone should try to do something different and easier to use.

 

[Muppetsdownunder]

Well the reversed monitor is something any tv puppeteer needs to learn and I was surprised when I did some basic monitor practice at the puppetry workshop earlier this year.

In answer to your question, I'm not an expert but I have tried to use a cheap webcam as a camera to do some very basic puppetry practic on and it sounds like a good idea and good to save money but the delay and quality was so annoying, you move the puppet and a second later it actually appeared on the screen, its very hard for lip syncing. As I said though, this was with a very cheap webcam which is now not working at all so it might be worth a try with a good webcam.

I've tried it with a digital camera plugged into a monitor in video mode and it works great, but a very primitive method still compared to a proper video camera.

 

[ravagefrackle]

That second line was necessary. I don't appreciate you making some snide little assumption about me, ok?

Secondly, I like to plan something out to be as effective as possible, It does not make sense to ME to do it the way "everyone else does it".
Its not a natural reflex to do something opposite.
I dont particualry care for the "this is the way the muppets have done it, so thats the way you have to do it" attitude.

Heaven forbid someone should try to do something different and easier to use.

DUDE CHILL OUT, i was making a snipey little comment , you stated that you were just gonna give up in your post, so i wrote back,

no yes thier maybe easier ways of doing something , but life in the world of TV production is rarely easy,

its not just the muppets whop produce shows this way, EVERY puppet show for tv does it this way, because it isnt worth the expense of going thru and changing it .
it isnt that hard a skill to master , and it but it does take time, sorry u thought i was being snipey, i thought i was trying to counter your IGIVE UP statement,

 

[DannyRWW]

A cheap way to practice with a monitor... I bought a 50 buck karoake cam that plugs into a vcr... I use it to prctice puppetry and so that the puppet team I direct can watch while they perform. I also use it as a standard video camera to review performances and practices.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

This may be of interest to those of you who want to set up and practice with monitors properly - Setting Up A Practice Monitor by Leo Brodie.

Re: webcams, I think that's a great idea but buy the more expensive, 30fps models. The cheap ones are 15fps and very jerky.

Oh and just to back up what Blink, Ravagefrackle and others have already said the "mirrored" monitors are not standard in television. Anyone here aspiring to be a professional puppeteer who works in TV or film has to be able to use the reverse monitors. Not being able to use a reverse monitor in TV puppetry is sort of like trying to be a racecar driver and not being able to drive standard.