Too all the people Undercharging for Thier work

[staceyrebecca]

I hope that someday I can be legendary for my temperment.

 

[practicecactus]

Harlan Ellison is LEGENDARY for his temperament. He is opinionated and grumpy and harsh and VERY touchy on certain subjects. However, you can't accuse him of NOT knowing his own opinion on any given subject.

But he's been a sci-fi writer for a bazillion years and has been through just about anything a writer CAN be put through so he has to be taken with a LARGE grain of salt.

But man... he's entertaining. Gotta give him that.

-Gordon

And is also famous for being the man who got fired from disney on his first day after the execs heard him in the cafeteria describing what disney porn would be like, with the character voices and all.

 

[dkmontgomery]

Well said!

UPDATE

So the commision I had wrote about earlier in this thread of where they wanted to pay me for $45 each puppet and have them build 8 puppets.

Well I had wrote them back and told them that it was absurd to think $45 was acceptable for anything. I mean come on it costs $40 to fill my tank of gas on my van half way.

In any case I gave them a realistic quote and listed the materials and talked about the process of making the puppet including dyeing the fabric, fabricating clothing, having to make accesories and what not. I told them for me to do the project I need to be paid for my time as well as the materials and so on.

Well they wrote back. They said they did not intend to insult me with there price and that they were uninformed of how much work goes into puppet making. They said they were still really pleased with my work and the photos I sent them of my portfolio and would love to pay the price I quoted them.

So this all goes to show everyone you have to inform them and maybe stuff will work out in your benefit. The more people that are informed the better it is for all of us.

The guy on the video (in spite of the colorful language) did speak truth. I like how Onath handeled the above mentioned situation. People need to be informed. Way to go!

 

[ravagefrackle]

heres my thoughts on the above statement, most of which looks good to me

BUt what are you paying yourself per-hour?

do you see the work your doing as minimum wage ?or as being worth more than $6.00 an hour? or a more reasonable hourly rate?are you quick enough at building to estimate a decent amount for your tiem an effort?

its not just materials, and design its the money for your talent and time.

 

[MGov]

I agree with everything that has been said about letting people take advantage of our desire to build and perform by lowballing us on the budget. It is all completely true. Having worked at various levels of film and television, it very rarely is about paying people what they are worth until there is already a lot of money made. And even then, it's going to trickle down from the top.

On the other hand, though, there are occasionally projects you believe in. I don't think there is anything wrong with occasionally (did you notice I've used the word "occasionally" twice now? Gotta stress that) doing the work because your best buddy has a no-budget project and he really wants to work with you and you like the idea and you have the time and it is going to be a lot of fun. Or occasionally, when you are just starting out, doing something that will be good for your resumé or portfolio. It should never be a big project like Onath talked about (good on ya', there Onath!) and your share should be commiserate with the budget involved. And there are a bunch of other things to consider like who owns the character and the design, what kind of credit you will get, where is the project going to be seen, etc.

I think the times you put in the effort for low and no budget projects that you don't own or control should be few and far between (did I use the word "occasionally" yet?). We all want to make professional level money but we don't all have professional level skills or reputations yet. YET. I don't believe in the "paying your dues" argument. If you're good, you deserve to get what your worth no matter how long or short a time you've been doing it. But it does take time to build a reputation. So, if every once in a while you accept less than top rate for your work, every once in a while do a project because you are going to enjoy doing it, every once in a while you want to show that you work and play well with others, then I don't think there is anything wrong with doing just that.

On the third hand, I don't even have to wait for the post on the counter-argument, I can tell that story right now.

Last year, I built and performed a coffeemaker in a play. I kept the design and the puppet, that specific character name remained with the writer/director but I kept the basic essence of the character. I had fun doing the show, made some new friends, and did a lot of drinking with the cast so, overall, it was worth it.

The writer/director and I became friends, hung out together a lot. He had taken apart a stuffed bird to make a puppet character for himself that he had used in a couple of stage shows and has begun to use in shorts on YouTube. He eventually moved to L.A. and wanted some new versions of his puppet, a more professional style. His character, his design, he just needed them built.

I think he was expecting a quote that didn't exceed two digits to the left of the decimal point. But I had done the freebie thing for him once, had given him a lot of advice about moving to L.A. and I still kept the price for three puppets and a couple of costumes under $1000.

He sent me an email about a month ago saying he would think about it. Haven't heard back from him yet. So doing the freebie didn't payoff in the long run.

I guess my point is, don't let anyone lowball you for your work but I think it is alright to occasionally do something you love just because it is something you love to do.


Edited to add: Watched the Harlan Ellison video and also another interview with him while he was picketing for the WGA strike last December. He's right, of course, but he is a complete nutwad!

 

[Toasty]

Well put, MGov. And it's been mentioned already, but I'll retype it because it's important: Education and dialog with would-be clients can be the key to getting paid the proper amount for a build/performance. And, hopefully, education (like this thread) and dialog with others in one's builder/performer peer group will help adjust some misguided attitudes towards pricing, business practices, copyright etc, as well.

 

[staceyrebecca]

When do you, as a puppeteer/performer, decide when you no longer need to build your resume?

 

[ravagefrackle]

When do you, as a puppeteer/performer, decide when you no longer need to build your resume?

your never done, your only as good as your last project

 

[staceyrebecca]

What if you feel like your last project was well beyond your league?

 

[Toasty]

What if you feel like your last project was well beyond your league?

Just label it your "experimental phase" and continue to work toward the projects you believe reside closer to your league.