The "Upstairs, Downstairs" debate!

[wiley207]

OK, ever since the "Upstairs, Downstairs" Monsterpiece Theater classic has been re-uploaded to Youtube, this has started an odd debate. JonnyTBird and a few others claim that it is from 1978 and the first Monsterpiece Theater made, according to the packaging of an Alistair Cookie doll.

However, I believe that the real first Monsterpiece Theater segment was "Me Claudius", since it does not have the Union Jack opening, and it is also rather short and at the end it just starts up the opening theme again. With "Upstairs, Downstairs" it is like a normal Monsterpiece Theater entry, except it takes longer to zoom out on the Union Jack opening and has an announcer (voiced by Jerry Nelson, of course) and it is the average length of a MT segment, and the skit has its own opening and closing title and theme music, and at the end, instead of starting at the beginning of the theme, it plays the final section of the whole theme music like later Monsterpiece Theater skits do, and it slowly zooms back into the title card again.

My theory is that "Me Claudius" is from 1981, and that "Upstairs, Downstairs" is actually from 1982. While it is probably the first one to use the Union Jack logo, it probably isn't the first Monsterpiece Theater skit.

But it's possible that "Me, Claudius" could've been from maybe 1979, since it has Brian Muehl performing Elmo, and Slimey was around back then, and "Upstairs Downstairs" might be from 1980. Someone on Muppet Wiki has a 1982 Sesame episode with "Upstairs, Downstairs" on it so I DEFINITELY know it's older than 1989

Anyone have any opinions?

 

[minor muppetz]

Well, it's hard to tell which one came first. Alistar Cookie's opening and closing comments take place in different rooms than usual (and both rooms are different from each other). But maybe Upstairs, Downstairs was meant to be a one-shot sketch, and then a few years later it was decided to make Monsterpeice Theater into a regular segment, with the second one being slightly different from later segments.

I also read at Muppet Wiki that the Monsterpiece Theater set was also changed in the early 1990s, and that segments that ended with Alistar Cookie eating his pipe had their introductions and closings replaced. But I saw Monsterpeice Theater segments during the 1980s, and don't ever remember there being any differences in the regular sets.

 

[minor muppetz]

Also, if Monsterpiece Theater did originate in 1978, then I hope it's included on Old School Volume 2.

 

[mikebennidict]

The way I remember it is The Upstairs Downstairs piece was the 1st and had to have been in the late 70s.

 

[jonnytbird]

Also, if Monsterpiece Theater did originate in 1978, then I hope it's included on Old School Volume 2.

Well I am 100 percent sure that Upstairs Downstairs was the first Monsterpiece Theater back in 1978. Cuz I can totally tell that was from 78, older than 82. Plus, I agree that it should be on the next Old School boxset. When will they update it on wiki since it comes out in about a week?

 

[minor muppetz]

Well I am 100 percent sure that Upstairs Downstairs was the first Monsterpiece Theater back in 1978. Cuz I can totally tell that was from 78, older than 82. Plus, I agree that it should be on the next Old School boxset. When will they update it on wiki since it comes out in about a week?

Either when it comes out or/ and when new information is made available to the public. When it comes out, the "in development" tag will be gone. If an early review is posted online, then it will probably be updated based on what's said in the review.

 

[minor muppetz]

Well, according to the 40th anniversary DVD, Me, Claudias is from season 11. Too bad the pop-up features don't confirm when the skecthes debuted. But despite the 1978 source for Upstairs, Downstairs, I'm starting to be convinced that Me, Claudias came first. If anything those two were the first two Monsterpeice Theater segments (unless there's another one with a different introductory set which we don't know about).

And I've started speculating about the order and such for Monsterpiece Theater. This is all speculation, so don't take it for fact. But here's what I think.

I think Me, Claudias is the first, and I think maybe the "Monsterpiece Theater" concept was meant to be just a one-time sketch. And then I think it was decided to make more, and Upstairs, Downstairs was made, I'm thinking maybe one or two years later. The title card was created for this one, and other changes were made, such as having an announcer introduce the sketch (I figure it may have been dropped to avoid redundancy, as Alistair Cookie also itnroducd himself and Monsterpiece Theater), and the set was changed (could this have been done to reflect an actual set change for Masterpiece Theater? Any hardcore Masterpiece Theater fans out there with episodes from 1979-1983 who can do research to see if the set chanegd and when?).

And I'm thinking that they decided to make it a regular recurrign sketch after Upstairs, Downstairs, maybe building a new set to use regularly (not sure why), and dropping the announcer. I think maybe it became a recurring sketch in season 14. I'm sure that Chariots of Fur (earleist-known appearance there is the season 15 premiere) and The Sound of Music (a clip of which appears in The Muppets: A Celebration of 30 Years) came before 1985. And by the time of those two, the Cookie Monster puppet had changed.

I'm thinking that there were occasional gaps throughout the 1980s where new Monsterpiece Theater sketches weren't produced (if only Sesame Workshop would put out a chronological list of all sketches and the years they premiered). After The Sound of Music I think they decided to stop having Alistair Cookie eat his pipe, but still had it. The only ones I know of where he had his pipe but didn't eat it were Ali Baba and the 4 Thieves, The 39 Stairs, and Gone with the Wind. Hulu lists 30 Stairs and Gone with the Wind as originating in season 19 (the year the curriculum was expanded to teach kids to count up to 40, so that's the earleist 30 Stairs and Ali Baba could have been from), and we know that The 39 Stairs was in Sesame Street Special from 1988.

I think the pipe was dropped altogether in season 20, but the pipe scenes weren't replaced yet. There's a website, I think it's faq.com, which lists song information, such as copyright dates and episode numbers, and it lists Guys and Dolls as being from season 20. I think The Taming of the Shoe is also from that year, but I have no sources. But the Cookie Monster puppet looks the same in both sketches (though it was likely used over the course of several years). I'm pretty sure those didn't originally have the pipe, for reasons I'll explain later (and also, in those two Cookie holds a different prop at the end... it wouldn't make sense to also hold the pipe, though he could have still had it at the beginning).

We all know that The King and I debuted in season 21, and I assume the 40th anniversary DVD showed the intro/outro as originally aired (especially since they bothered to include the original title card on the DVD). Other sketches that I'm sure premiered in seasons 20 or 21 include One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest, The Postman Always Rings Twice, and The Old Man and the C. The 40th anniversary book cites season 22 as when Twin Beaks premiered.

I think I'll stop here listing what seasons I think were the premiere of certain sketches (though Hulu states that Conservations with my Father is from season 25). I think the openign was changed in season 22, and I think the pipe intros/outros were still used at that point (I know I've seen a Muppet Wiki page for an episode that pointed out that Gone with the Wind was shown with the newer opening but the original intro). And around the early 1990s it seems like somethign about the set changed... The room started looking darker, and I think they replaced Cookie's chair from a yellow-brownish chair to a green chair (I've been able to compare original/redone intros for The Sound of Music, Gone with the Wind, and The 39 Stairs), and there's quite a few late-1980s/early-1990s sketches with no pipe where the room was more brightly lit, clueing me in that those scenes weren't reshot.

And at one point the opening was changed yet again, and accordign to Muppet Wiki it was the only one not to resemble any Masterpiece Theater opening (I don't know why). I think I have seen a season 29 or 30 episode that used the second opening, though, but for the most part that opening was used for all sketches, including past ones (while some are shown with the first or second opening, most of the clips as seen on sesamestreet.org are presented with this opening).

I wonder if this would have been better as a Muppet Mindset article.

 

[wiley207]

Ah, so "Me Claudius" is from 1979? That wouldn't surprise me. I think "Upstairs, Downstairs" is actually from 1980-1981, but I remember a Muppet Wiki member commenting he had a 1982 episode that had "Upstairs, Downstairs" on it, so we know it is definitely at least from the early '80s.

But I actually think the second opening debuted in Season 24, which makes sense, as they also redid the main Sesame Street opening/closing sequences and the Super Grover title cards that year.

 

[jonnytbird]

Ah, so "Me Claudius" is from 1979? That wouldn't surprise me. I think "Upstairs, Downstairs" is actually from 1980-1981, but I remember a Muppet Wiki member commenting he had a 1982 episode that had "Upstairs, Downstairs" on it, so we know it is definitely at least from the early '80s.

But I actually think the second opening debuted in Season 24, which makes sense, as they also redid the main Sesame Street opening/closing sequences and the Super Grover title cards that year.

Atleast it's good to know that Me Claudius came from Season 11. But I still don't buy that it came first. Since it might have been a one shot thing, Upstairs Downstais was the first one made in Season 10. Which explains the announcer and the older CM puppet. Then, I think Chariots of Fur and Sound of Music came from Season 14. But I won't list all of what I do know about Monsterpiece Theater since I am indeed a MT fanatic and historian! But anyone can feel free to ask me any MT related questions.

Jon

 

[wiley207]

"Upstairs, Downstairs" does look a bit older than "Me, Claudius", with a different chair that Cookie Monster is sitting on instead of the yellow one, and its much longer-than-usual length. But the main difference is that "Me Claudius" is quite different from the usual Monsterpiece Theater fare, when you compare it to others (such as not having a title card, being very short, featuring random monsters, including a very early Elmo, and ending it by starting up the opening theme from the beginning again.) Whereas "Upstairs, Downstairs" is presented more like a typical Monsterpiece Theater segment we're all used too.