The perks and pitfalls of creating an online web series.

[Muppet Master]

Wow, you could go to L.A. and film your show at a legitimate studio, wow, sadly I will never get 10,000 subscribers or even 100 subscribers. The thing about Youtube is, it is all about the moviees and TV shows that you have to buy to watch nowadays, there should really be a website just for posting orginal content.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

The thing about Youtube is, it is all about the moviees and TV shows that you have to buy to watch nowadays, there should really be a website just for posting original content.

Maybe I'm getting a different feed here in Canada, but all I ever seen is music videos, movie trailers and original web series, but that tends to be the content that's offered by all the channels I subscribe to.

Blip.tv has always been more exclusively catered to original web shows. They have struggled and were recently bought by Maker Studios (one of the large YouTube Networks that's owned by Disney). I expect there will be changes there too as Maker takes over, but they are trying to position it as the anti-YouTube or at least a legitimate YouTube competitor.

 

[D'Snowth]

It would be nice to have free access to studios, but danged if it isn't bothersome to have to uproot and relocate yourself to do so. I know that's the way it's always been, even Jim was aware of that when the Muppets were starting to gain national attention, he knew you had to move to L.A. if you wanted to be in movies, and N.Y.C. if you wanted to be in television. I'm just not keen on that, I like where I live too much to uproot myself or anything like that. But that's also a drawback, because we just simply don't have the capacity for any kind of budgeted work; sure, there are studio lots in Knoxville (heck, stuff like TV shopping, jewelry TV, HGTV and stuff all comes from here), but they're just not large enough for any kind of a real scale production. It's a shame too, because Knoxville actually has a large number of independent filmmakers and producers (myself included), but it's like this town just doesn't get enough notice for mainstream media to realize that this town is capable of offering as much as it can.

As for promoting yourself, I learned the hard way that that doesn't help you at all. I'm fortunate a lot of my work has been found by accident, but again, I learned the hard way the promoting yourself actually turns people off rather than turn on their interest, as promoting yourself is seen as shameless, selfish, and a desperate cry for attention, which is why I hardly ever promote any of my work: I've actually gotten into all kinds of trouble trying to promote creations of mine in the past before. Yes, I have my Scarblog, and I also have Facebook, but I don't even promote any of that stuff.

And lastly, that is a good point about target audiences, and I know that's something everybody looks for when investing in a body of work, I've even been asked that question qhen asking my PBS colleagues if I could possibly bring Steve's potential TV series to them. I'm not sure if I'm digging myself into another pitfall, but the truth of the matter is, I've never had a target audience, and never will. I don't want to have to limit myself to a specific demographic; I don't want to do shows for kids, and I don't want to show for adults, I want my work to be for anybody and everybody whose interestted in seeing it, which is one of the reasons why my work has always been modeled after classic television of the 60s, where a primetime sitcom was appropriate for viewers of all ages, as opposed to today, where primetime is all about sex, foul language, and more sex. I don't do a lot of adult humor, nor do I water my writing down... I kind of take a Weird Al approach to the process: it's acceptable for all ages, and even if I do get a little edgy (believe it or not, I slipped a mild and subtle sex joke into Steve's finale) it's never done in a tastless manner that it wouldn't be inapprorpiate. Interestingly, TV Tropes has incorrectly indexed my webcomic miniseries VAMPIRE GIRL as being targeted at single women between the ages of 18 and 40, which... it really isn't... that was one of those things I literally did for the art of the whole thing.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

I understand where you're coming from. I live in Toronto, which is the centre of the Canadian media world, but still relatively small compared to what goes on in LA, New York or London. You're absolutely right about having more opportunities in a place like New York or L.A.

Promotion can be tricky. On the one hand, you want to put yourself out there. On the other hand, you don't want to come across as too aggressive or pushy. I struggle with that sometimes.

Although we've been talking about promotion, views, etc. I think it's really important to do what you love...and what you love doesn't always have to be how you make your living or need thousands of fans to validate it.

 

[crazy chris]

I think it's really important to do what you love...and what you love doesn't always have to be how you make your living or need thousands of fans to validate it.

NAILED IT!!

Ive loved all the wonderful comments and ideas shared on this thread... but part of me wishes i had started it a little differently...i will explain why...

Me and the Sass crew aren't in it to become rich and famous...or to make a million dollars... We do it (or atleast I do it) because as kid's we watched a show like sesame street and wished we could be that lucky kid who sat and talked to grover.... wished we could have his view looking down at frank oz's head and see monitors and cables and cameras.... (maybe im just weird like that)

Anyways... i now have a building i can go to anytime i want and have that... and i gotta say....IT IS AMAZING!!

These dreams were born before there was such a thing as youtube... or even an internet as we know it... so it sure as heck doesnt hinge on either one of those things for me... I think more than anything I would love to have the BIG audience simply to validate the hard work of my crew who came along for the ride with or without my specific dream.

cc

 

[DerpSandwich]

This is a fantastic thread, and I would love to get in on the discussion! I can't at the moment, but I'm posting here so I remember to come back later. I'm starting a web series as well, so I can definitely relate to a lot of this.

A couple quick things to add, I suppose. I can see both sides of the "luck" debate, though I'm leaning more towards luck sometimes being a factor. Not every time, but I do believe that sometimes you can have two shows of equal quality and one goes by the wayside and the other just happens to get shared at the right time, leading to more views, leading to another lucky share, then another, etc. Luck won't make a bad show popular, but I do believe that every once in a while an otherwise unknown production can gain popularity through a happy chance. Even just striking on one video that becomes viral can take luck. There are plenty of viral videos out there that were floating around for years before getting shared in just the right place and catching on. People often don't know they're hitting on something big when they do it--they were just making what they wanted to make. That feels like luck to me. But while the concept exists, I suppose I don't feel it's necessary to success.

As for the "no room for originality" thing, that's kind of a tough one. On the one hand, Youtube is a powerful platform for people to do what they want, and sometimes what they're doing is original. But on the other hand, sometimes I look around and it really doesn't seem like there is room for creativity. Even the good-quality stuff is still following certain formulas. Glove and Boots is great, and they've got some really funny sketches. But their sketches aren't what made them popular. What made them popular were extremely shareable lists and videos about current pop culture stuff. The sort of thing that people share on Facebook. Now sometimes it feels like that's all they do, because that's the stuff that people tend to share--not just videos that are funny. Similarly, it seems like the kids content that's popular on Youtube isn't particularly creative or original--it's just highly polished and easily sharable. That doesn't mean that an original production can't succeed, but I do believe that people tend to like what's easy and comfortable, and what refers to pop culture that they know about. It's frustrating, but that doesn't mean I'll ever stop doing what I feel is good, and hunting for an audience. I know they're out there; they just might be harder to find because they represent a smaller part of the population.

Well look at that, I made fairly long post after all. But those aren't even my real points! I'll be back to share my experience and thoughts on making a show!

 

[crazy chris]

I like your take on the "luck" comment. Essentially nothing is cut and dried...there are no exact rules to this... if their were then somebody would write a book and everyone would have success... thus my feelings that sometimes the universe steps in and stirs the pot a bit... it's certainly not said to discount the hard work of these guys... it's just saying that even the funniest ...most polished programs need viewers to accidently stumble upon them... even network shows with huge advertising budgets need viewers to stumble upon their ad... or turn on the tv at 8pm... instead of the countless other things they could do with their time...

As Andrew said... luck will not help a bad show... the content has to be good... but that little bit of luck will always play a part...big or small...

I mean... evolutionist and scientist believe that our entire civilization and universe is exists due to a tiny moment of luck... right or wrong... "luck" is everywhere...

cc

 

[D'Snowth]

As for the "no room for originality" thing, that's kind of a tough one. On the one hand, Youtube is a powerful platform for people to do what they want, and sometimes what they're doing is original. But on the other hand, sometimes I look around and it really doesn't seem like there is room for creativity. Even the good-quality stuff is still following certain formulas. Glove and Boots is great, and they've got some really funny sketches. But their sketches aren't what made them popular. What made them popular were extremely shareable lists and videos about current pop culture stuff. The sort of thing that people share on Facebook.

Yeah, I know that feeling. I've noticed that the things I post on my Scarblog that people tend to actually read is whenever I post about or review Muppet-related news and such, otherwise, I don't believe anybody reads anything that I post related to my actual original work.

Other than that, as I said beforehand, when it comes to stuff on YouTube, unless you put money in Google's pocket to promote you, you're pretty much swept under the rug at this point.

And it's not just posting content on YT. My Xerus and myself can attest to having our webcomics overlooked by the general public; from my own experience, I've found that webcomic readers prefer one of three kinds of webcomics: manga-inspired, stolen video sprites, and LGBT.

 

[Gabe BFLS]

So glad I found this on Puppet Vision. We have a similar experience to you, Chris. We started our webseries "Bigfoot's Little Show" two years ago. We are amateur puppeteers who always wanted to do a show in the vain of The Muppet show and thought that online was the way to go. We work in the film and advertising industry and we live in LA. None of these advantages have help us get views. It's been a very frustrating and heart breaking experience trying to promote the show and then getting very views. I agree there is some level of luck needed to gain success. But I've talked to people who work in social media and here is some of their insight:

1. Youtube (and video on the internet) has already established a style. If you look at the top youtube earners they are mostly talking heads, video game players or very simple shows. So subscribers are accustomed to this reality and don't subscribe to scripted materials. They had the benefit of being on youtube early on and because of lack of budget they did their show on the cheap so they could produce two or three videos a week. They created a consistency; a schedule for their fans to follow and are accustomed. We cannot compete with that. I realized that early on (and had it confirmed) so we decided to make our show a bit "lo-fi" so we could churn out more. But as you know, creating content is extremely time consuming (specially with a day job).


2. Youtube is a Blackhole / Echo chamber. It's so saturated with content that it's difficult for people to find new things. 11 years ago we posted a short film and we got 12 thousand views without even promoting it. Now we struggle to get 1% of that. There so much that people don't really search Youtube. They usually get a link from a friend or just click on stuff from the first page. How do you get on the first page? Luck. They way this works is that Youtube has curators. They go through Youtube saving clips they think they can sell ad space to companies. Company X will contact Youtube and say that they have a campaign and are looking for a video with potential viral-bility. Youtube gives them options and they Company X chooses and pay$ for it to be promoted by Youtube. And that's how you get the Harlem Shake.

3. Kids content does not really get clicks on Youtube. All the top Youtubers are pretty adult and crass. It's just not kid friendly. It's not safe. That's why parents use Netflix and Hulu more because it's more controlled. I wish Youtube made a kid friendly version. That would help us out a lot by reducing their site content by probably 90%.

4. Content Aggregation Sites: People go to Reddit, IGN, Laughing Squid and other sites to get their content. Not Youtube. They go to these sites to get a curated list of links. From what I've been told by my social media friends, these are the gate-keepers. This is probably the best way to succeed. Finding a blog or other content aggregation site that will put your video on their list.

5. The other way would be having a famous Youtuber share a link or give a shout out in their videos.


To me the worst part has been the lack of "friends" support. Combined, me and my co-conspirators probably have over a thousand friends on Facebook, so it just sucks when you just get 70 views in a month.

After such a disappointing run, we took a break from shooting the show. We recently started shooting new stuff because at the end of the day we love doing it. We are going to try some of the tips we to get views and we will go from there.

But i think the first step is the we should all support each other. All us Kid content creators like you said need to create a support group. I have already subscribed to Starship Sassafras. Good luck!

 

[crazy chris]

So glad I found this on Puppet Vision. We have a similar experience to you, Chris. We started our webseries "Bigfoot's Little Show" two years ago. We are amateur puppeteers who always wanted to do a show in the vain of The Muppet show and thought that online was the way to go. We work in the film and advertising industry and we live in LA. None of these advantages have help us get views. It's been a very frustrating and heart breaking experience trying to promote the show and then getting very views. I agree there is some level of luck needed to gain success. But I've talked to people who work in social media and here is some of their insight:

1. Youtube (and video on the internet) has already established a style. If you look at the top youtube earners they are mostly talking heads, video game players or very simple shows. So subscribers are accustomed to this reality and don't subscribe to scripted materials. They had the benefit of being on youtube early on and because of lack of budget they did their show on the cheap so they could produce two or three videos a week. They created a consistency; a schedule for their fans to follow and are accustomed. We cannot compete with that. I realized that early on (and had it confirmed) so we decided to make our show a bit "lo-fi" so we could churn out more. But as you know, creating content is extremely time consuming (specially with a day job).


2. Youtube is a Blackhole / Echo chamber. It's so saturated with content that it's difficult for people to find new things. 11 years ago we posted a short film and we got 12 thousand views without even promoting it. Now we struggle to get 1% of that. There so much that people don't really search Youtube. They usually get a link from a friend or just click on stuff from the first page. How do you get on the first page? Luck. They way this works is that Youtube has curators. They go through Youtube saving clips they think they can sell ad space to companies. Company X will contact Youtube and say that they have a campaign and are looking for a video with potential viral-bility. Youtube gives them options and they Company X chooses and pay$ for it to be promoted by Youtube. And that's how you get the Harlem Shake.

3. Kids content does not really get clicks on Youtube. All the top Youtubers are pretty adult and crass. It's just not kid friendly. It's not safe. That's why parents use Netflix and Hulu more because it's more controlled. I wish Youtube made a kid friendly version. That would help us out a lot by reducing their site content by probably 90%.

4. Content Aggregation Sites: People go to Reddit, IGN, Laughing Squid and other sites to get their content. Not Youtube. They go to these sites to get a curated list of links. From what I've been told by my social media friends, these are the gate-keepers. This is probably the best way to succeed. Finding a blog or other content aggregation site that will put your video on their list.

5. The other way would be having a famous Youtuber share a link or give a shout out in their videos.


To me the worst part has been the lack of "friends" support. Combined, me and my co-conspirators probably have over a thousand friends on Facebook, so it just sucks when you just get 70 views in a month.

After such a disappointing run, we took a break from shooting the show. We recently started shooting new stuff because at the end of the day we love doing it. We are going to try some of the tips we to get views and we will go from there.

But i think the first step is the we should all support each other. All us Kid content creators like you said need to create a support group. I have already subscribed to Starship Sassafras. Good luck!

Fantastic post Gabe!!

So many points i want to touch on and comment on...so bare with me!

Firstly... you are so right about the support of social media friends. Yesterday morning i posted a silly photo of myself as a baby and received 70 likes in a 24 hour period... however...when i post our videos i get 2...lol... are they that terrible? Gabby (our character) has his own fb page... with 1000 followers and when he posts a funny sentence he gets dozens and dozens of views and comments... but if he posts a video he gets nada. It's so bizarre.

When i first opened our theater i did it for my friends... im a single guy with no children and all my friends have gotten married and have young ones... so I assumed this might be a way for me to become "cool uncle chris"... and oddly enough i got minimal support from close friends and family. Thank goodness for the support of strangers. lol

Very interesting insight into the "Youtube Gatekeepers" situation. I assumed that was the case but never had it confirmed.

My fear about "lo-fi'ing" our series would be my own dissapointment in the product coupled with the fact that ,even with the loss of quality, the views would probably not increase. Thus making it all a moot point... Which leads me to the conclusion that we will just keep making the show we like and do it for the "love of it". And atleast have a place to show it. Whether it is watched or not.

As far as the kid friendly aspect... you are so right! We were lucky enough to be sought after by batteryPOP.com http://www.batterypop.com/shows/starship-sassafrass (created by veterans of Nickelodeon Television) who have contracted us to promote our content. Their site is air tight and safe for kids... however , with that safety, comes a price. There is no verbal feedback. In an effort to eliminate the ability to bully...troll.. or contact other members theyve removed that aspect. They do however have the "pop" system. which is a bit slow going and hard to guage. There is no way of guaging viewership totals either. But it is nice to have an outlet that atleast keeps you on the front page for a few months.

We have been developing a side project for the past several months that involves puppets , and though not officially "adult" will hopefully harness the beast that is youtube by using its power against it... so we will see how that plays out....more on that later. lol

Thanks again everyone for all the interesting and helpful comments.

SUPPORT EACH OTHER!!

Gabe.. im looking up your series right now... but feel free to edit in a direct link... might as well do a little advertizing!! hahaha

cc