The Outlook of Muppets and Their Fans

[Ruahnna]

Oh my gosh--actually displays of emotion! (Gasp!) How heartening! I've been watching the Muppets all of my life (and most of theirs), and I'm a dyed-in-the-felt fan. Although initially apprehensive, I've embraced newer voices doing different roles, different "takes" on old characters that I've come to love.
Still--and I HAVE to say this--it's sometimes a little weird. There is nothing in the world like muppetry--no comparison out there--but that makes the way that the characters evolve strange in ways that are more than complex. It's a little like getting used to an old friend's new wife--only the new wife looks exactly like the old wife and is, in fact, pretending to actually BE the old wife. Weird, and sometimes unsettling. And sometimes the new people who do the old people with other new and old people doing new and old people end up with a different sort of flavor to the humor, an unexpected slant to the performance. It that bad? Not necessarily, but not acknowledging it--even if we're uncomfortable--seems somehow psychologically dishonest. (Some of my best friends are Muppets--honest!)
I love the Muppet performers past and present (Not personally, cause they don't know me) and I so respect and appreciate how hard they have worked to keep Jim's dream alive, and Kermit's positive influence out there and Gonzo's soul-searching pricking our consciousness and Miss Piggy's confidence as an inspiration to all of us everyday divas and, well, you get what I'm saying, but yeah, sometimes I get nostalgic for the classic Kermit/Piggy moments that only Jim and Frank could do, the Swedish Chef (another Jim/Frank collaberation) insanity that was unrivaled and the biting sweetness of Jerry Juhl's writing. I miss them. I'm sorry they are gone from the bottom of my heart. But I will support an applaud any who are willing and capable of standing in their shoes. God Bless 'em, every one.
(Stepping gingerly off the soapbox....)

 

[ReneeLouvier]

Very well put Ruahnna!

It is this mix of new and old which brings some unsettling about, true. Eric is getting more into the characters now, as you could probably tell in IAVMMC, he was a little unsure of how to play out Piggy against Kermit, concerning those little nunaces we've come to embrace, most likely, so he ended up coming across as kinda stupid or overbearing at times.

I believe he embraced Fozzie much better then Piggy though. Ever notice this though?

Jim Henson = Steve Whitmire
Frank Oz = Eric Jacobson

It's almost as if they are fulfilling some kind of easing in. Hopefully with sometime, we'll see a good relationship blossom as with Jim and Frank, as would be seen in Steve and Eric. And for the most part, it's character for character actually.

I'm glad that Scooter has a stable hand and voice with him now. If we could only get one for Janice, that would be wonderful.

But...I've just noticed sometimes, it feels like they are reaching in the dark for a leader. Which they don't have now. Brian accepted his Father's role in part, for awhile there. But he dosn't want it anymore. He would still work with them, but he dosn't want to be leader, so as of now. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) There is no solid leader now. And that is why we see less heart in their current productions.

 

[Marky]

Very well put Ruahnna!

It is this mix of new and old which brings some unsettling about, true. Eric is getting more into the characters now, as you could probably tell in IAVMMC, he was a little unsure of how to play out Piggy against Kermit, concerning those little nunaces we've come to embrace, most likely, so he ended up coming across as kinda stupid or overbearing at times.

I believe he embraced Fozzie much better then Piggy though. Ever notice this though?

Jim Henson = Steve Whitmire
Frank Oz = Eric Jacobson

It's almost as if they are fulfilling some kind of easing in. Hopefully with sometime, we'll see a good relationship blossom as with Jim and Frank, as would be seen in Steve and Eric. And for the most part, it's character for character actually.

I'm glad that Scooter has a stable hand and voice with him now. If we could only get one for Janice, that would be wonderful.

But...I've just noticed sometimes, it feels like they are reaching in the dark for a leader. Which they don't have now. Brian accepted his Father's role in part, for awhile there. But he dosn't want it anymore. He would still work with them, but he dosn't want to be leader, so as of now. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) There is no solid leader now. And that is why we see less heart in their current productions.

I don't know - I was surprised at myself for how moved I was at Fozzie and Piggy during IaVMMCM, particularily in the alternate-time scenes. (and when Fozzie lost the $).

Come to think of it, I think that's the best muppet project done so far this decade by a lopng shot. Too bad it was MGM/NBC - that seems to have hampered it distribution (or lackthere of). I thin kDisney should buy it - it has the BEST behind-the-scenes by far as well.

I kind of wish Brian & Co. would be more involved, too.

 

[Ruahnna]

Giving Fozzie his due

Come to think of it, I think that's the best muppet project done so far this decade by a lopng shot. Too bad it was MGM/NBC - that seems to have hampered it distribution (or lackthere of). I thin kDisney should buy it - it has the BEST behind-the-scenes by far as well.]

True, true Marky. I have to confess that I like IAVMMC so well that I listened to the movie over and over in my car. I can practically quote the whole show! (Just think what I could be doing with my brain cells if I wasn't doing that!) I think the interactions between Kermit and Fozzie were very well done. When Kermit gasps and says, "Oh, Fozzie--no!" you can hear the dismay in his voice even while he strive valiently to support his friend.

I have to admit that, when I was younger I was so very wrapped up in the Kermit-Piggy relationship (Yeah, like I'm not still--and wasn't that a great KISS scene in IAVMMC!) that I didn't give Fozzie his due. Fozzie sometimes acts as the "child's presence" on TMS. He is the innocent, pure and often bewildered commentator on the "adult" world, the babe in the Holly-woods, as it were. And yet, his purity of spirit very often provides some of the most tender moments on the show. Unlike Kermit, who bears the mantle or responsibility willingly if somewhat crankily at times, or Piggy who pretends very hard that she doesn't need the approval and love she so desperately craves, or Gonzo, who is so tuned into the voices in his head that he's often not aware of where he is, Fozzie is the little voice begging, even demanding "Please like me--please, please like me--I'm a nice bear!" And yet, there's a nobility about his desire that keeps him from being pathetic. At his best--at OUR best--he makes us WANT him to succeed. You go, big bear--any hecklers will have to come thru me first!

 

[ReneeLouvier]

Unlike Kermit, who bears the mantle or responsibility willingly if somewhat crankily at times, or Piggy who pretends very hard that she doesn't need the approval and love she so desperately craves, or Gonzo, who is so tuned into the voices in his head that he's often not aware of where he is, Fozzie is the little voice begging, even demanding "Please like me--please, please like me--I'm a nice bear!" And yet, there's a nobility about his desire that keeps him from being pathetic.

That makes a great way to describe them all. I love it. I'm probably sounding like Wembly here with all these, I support everyone no matter what they say. But it's because IMO it is all true. It just depends what colored glasses your looking through.

Personally I somewhat tend to look through pale rose shades. I see it for what it is, but my memories paint another picture over this one. Although I see when Piggy gets screwed up, or when Fozzie sounds like her. When Kermit dosnt' do enough facial expressions, seems too wooden. I also take them as just...I don't know. I just don't see it as bad as it sometimes is.

I'm loving all these wonderful commentarys though. Gives a very nice show of what we think, honestly.

 

[Marky]

That makes a great way to describe them all. I love it. I'm probably sounding like Wembly here with all these, I support everyone no matter what they say. But it's because IMO it is all true. It just depends what colored glasses your looking through.

Personally I somewhat tend to look through pale rose shades. I see it for what it is, but my memories paint another picture over this one. Although I see when Piggy gets screwed up, or when Fozzie sounds like her. When Kermit dosnt' do enough facial expressions, seems too wooden. I also take them as just...I don't know. I just don't see it as bad as it sometimes is.

I'm loving all these wonderful commentarys though. Gives a very nice show of what we think, honestly.

You both have valid points, and while I can be quite dry or over-silly (live with it!), I also enjoy all of these well thought-out points.

Fozzie being like a child is soooooo part of his schtick in The Great Muppet Caper, eh? I'm glad Pepe has spiced things up (although he really only had one joke in Oz "I'm sexy, okay?".

Still love'em. Yep. I still dig them today.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I've been pretty cynical about the latest Muppet projects, but I finally forced myself to rent "It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas." I decided I shouldn't judge something before I've given it a chance. I figure this thread is a good place to post my thoughts.

As expected, the humor was hardly up to the standards of the Classic Muppets, which is unfortunate. The characters were often a little too, I don't know, mean to each other for the sake of a joke. But like I said in a previous post, I don't entirely blame The Muppets. They've always tried to stay current and keep up with the latest trends in pop culture. The problem is pop culture has taken a nose dive in recent years.

Anyway, while the humor wasn't always on target, the story's moral message was strong and clear. Kermit is struggling with losing the theater and letting his friends down. He's so depressed he wishes he was never born. I think we've all felt that way at some point, I know I have.

In the end, Kermit sees how much he means to his friends and the rest of the world. Everyone is important and can make a difference, no matter how small. He also realizes how silly he was to wish he was never born. He should have just said he was having a bad day! Seeing Kermit feel better definitely inspired me to have a more positive outlook on life. And that's ultimately what The Muppets are all about. As long as they can still do that, The Muppets will still have an audience. (That being said, I do wish the older Muppet specials were more available on DVD!)

P.S. It was also good to see Scooter again (even if his voice was different) and nice to hear him still using his Uncle to impress people!

 

[Kaiser Gonzo]

thats beautiful "sniff" I'm not crying, honest "Sniif" "Tear slowlrolls down cheek" Okay, okay i'm CRYING!!!!!!!!!

 

[ReneeLouvier]

wow....that's beautiful everyone. I love these opinions on the muppets as they are and how they've been. It's just...it is just plain out beautiful to see everyone finally being able to put aside the nitpicks to agree:

They have changed, but at least in acting and performers....they haven't changed.

They are living oxymorons: They have, yet they haven't.

Think about it, friends.

 

[MartyMuppets]

I only have this to say and that is even though Jim is gone, Richard is gone and as time goes by other members of the original team will also go however in one form or another the Muppet characters will still be around.
We may not like the direction the new people in charge take sometimes but Henson puppetry or Muppetry as you probably prefer to call it will never disappear completely.

In the exact same way that Disney animation will always be here to stay long time after all of Walt's original animation team have joined him in the grave