The New Movie: The Muppets

[Drtooth]

A lot of my fave Muppets are the minor supporting characters. Crazy Harry and Marvin Suggs will never have starring roles but their small appearances here and there always make me light up like a Christmas tree even though they almost always are just cameo appearances. When it comes to the Muppets, screentime doesn't affect their effectiveness or enjoyability.

Wasn't Marvin's appearance in the first movie, the one where you basically hear "Ole! Ole" and see him spinning around, and then once again during the end credits his biggest role in Muppet Movies? Link's film career was a silent scene during the end credits of the first one, sitting at the wedding audience in MTM, striking a gong in MTI, and waiting outside the bathroom in MFS? Not a word spoken in 4 films. But then again, Pepe has been a major part lately. Somehow, I'd love someone to make a movie ALL about Link.

Which leads me to this...

It does appear that they've minimized Pepe's role. I hope this isn't true because he's helped keep the Muppets connected to modern audiences for over a decade and he's certainly paid his dues. I think they can plant Pepe firmly in the ensemble while giving Rowlf and Scooter more to do than the beloved prawn.

Again, this all seems like a writing thing. Let's say you're writing for the Simpsons, and you've been a devoted fan the first five seasons, and somehow never got back into the series. You wouldn't write anything with newer characters because you're barely familiar with them, and focus largely on characters that were bigger around that time. You wouldn't put Cletus in there unless you were instructed to, and Ralph wouldn't be popping up every five minutes to say something dumb, and it would feel more like said older episodes. heck, you'd probably put Marvin Monroe in there somewhere. But then again, once you get feedback, if you don't add those characters in, someone else might. So again, we don't know until we've seen the finished product. Remember, this is all based on the leaked draft.

 

[terrimonster]

Somehow, I'd love someone to make a movie ALL about Link.

That would have great potential for awesomeness.

 

[dwmckim]

Just thought of a fun example of how the substance rather than the length of the part can be fun, memorable, and delightfully Muppety. Picture if you will, Link's first line in the movie ends up being something of a tongue-twister and he flubs it up - to which Piggy turns to him and admonishes, "After 30 years, you FINALLY get a line in a Muppet movie and you BLEW IT?" Pepe: "UN-believable. Sometimes the pretty ones should just be seen and not heard, okay."

 

[beaker]

I want to amend, revise and clarify my original comments in this thread. I got distracted from my point and wandered into my hopes for the Muppets aside from my hopes for "The Muppets." I'll be disappointed if Pepe isn't in the movie very much. It won't dampen my enthusiasm for the movie, and I don't think it will take away from the quality of the movie. In fact, I won't be all that disappointed by the relative absence of the character. I will be disappointed on behalf of Bill Barretta. Bill Barretta joined the Muppets as an originator of several new characters, a few of which have stuck. That's a huge accomplishment post-Henson. I feel bad for him that after all he's done in terms of creativity and character development, he's going to be largely stuck performing someone else's characters for this movie.

I'm sure it's a great honor to be trusted with Jim Henson's characters such as Rowlf, The Swedish Chef and Dr. Teeth. But at the same time, there's limited freedom for creativity when taking on an established role and essentially doing an impression. As Drtooth said, Pepe saved his share of Muppet projects. Some of this was due to writing, but I think a lot of it was due to Bill's talent as a performer. Of his most recognizable original characters, Pepe is the only one that could really work here. It wouldn't make much sense to have a big role for Carl, and putting Bobo and Rowlf together only draws the obvious vocal comparisons.

Bill Barretta is the only current core Muppeteer to rise and thrive in the post-Henson era with, and on the merit of, his original characters. I don't think the Muppets would be as strong as they are if not for him. So just in the context of "The Muppets," it would be nice if out of recognition for Bill's tremendous contributions to the Muppets, his biggest original character got some significant screen time, in addition to the roles he's taken over. If not, it isn't going to take away from the film or dampen my desire to see it.

I agree. In fact I'll just say it: Pepe was the best thing to come out of the post JH era. And I even feel Pepe was the saving grace to a lot of otherwise so-so Muppet productions.

From 1999 til 2010, both JHC and Disney built Pepe up to be one of the MAIN 5 characters, right next to Kermit, Piggy, Gonzo and Fozzie. He's continually been one of the shining stars and scene stealers in countless, countless tv appearances, specials, commercials, etc. To me its NOT "the Muppets" without him. Again, my enthusiasm isn't dampered if he's not in it, but it's just odd. I just don't get how you can have a MODERN Muppet production without him. He's one of the only few Muppets that always makes me literally "LOL" from just the oddball things he says.

To me it makes no sense, and feels like a mix of a slap in the face and a "retcon" for Pepe to be MIA.

I truly have this feeling that current writers for Muppet entertainment were absent from the last two decades. Why else does Langridge, Segal, etc seem dully unaware of Pepe or the fact he's one of the main guys? And again, it's not their fault...theyre kind of stuck in this lalala 76-84 romantic period of the TMS run and the original films. A lot of fans stuck in the nostalgia cycle seem to be.

I'm sorry if some fans are tired of Pepe, "don't get it", or find him too ubiquitous for his own good...but can we name any post JH character that has as good as chemistry and timing as he does, especially when it comes to the main core?

 

[beaker]

You know the saying, "There are no small roles, only small actors?" Well, when it comes to the Muppets, there may be small Muppets in stature but as Pepe so famously says he's not a shrimp, he's a king prawn. Ergo, "There are no small roles, only King Prawns"...meaning maybe Pepe or others may still only end up with three lines but when it comes to The Muppets, it's quality not quantity. Even if Pepe ends up with three lines, they may still end up the best, funniest, applause-generating lines in the movie.

A lot of my fave Muppets are the minor supporting characters. Crazy Harry and Marvin Suggs will never have starring roles but their small appearances here and there always make me light up like a Christmas tree even though they almost always are just cameo appearances. When it comes to the Muppets, screentime doesn't affect their effectiveness or enjoyability.

Same here. Though sometimes the more minor characters have a "breakout" moment of cult favorite status, or the "boba fett" effect. like Beaker and Chef. I agree tho, I love me some Lew Zealand, Luncheon Counter, Droop, etc. Notice though, how more recently Beau has been featured more prominently in online videos. Bobo as well, who has fast risen to one of the more core line of characters.

By the way, what are some ideas you'd have for "Where are they now" scenes? I love how they're going to run with that, like Animal at an anger management course. I see it as kind of a nod to TMTM. I'd be laughing my pants off if Sam the Eagle became a conservative radio commentator, Swedish Chef got his own cable cooking show or Crazy Harry ended up at a remote frontier Pakistani training camp.

 

[beaker]

My Muppet geekdom feels this is the appropriate hierarchy of Muppets:

1. Kermit
2. Fozzie
3. Miss Piggy
4. Gonzo
5. Scooter
6. Rowlf
7 & 8. Pepe & Rizzo
9 & 10. Bunsen & Beaker
11-15. Classic Electric Mayhem
16. Sam Eagle
17 & 18. Statler & Waldorf
19. Swedish Chef
20. Robin
21 + the Muppet monsters, extras and secondary characters.

This is just my take on it, but I think a lot of fans would roughly agree here.

From what I recall, the order in the 80's and 90's seemed to be:
1. Kermit
2. Piggy
3. Gonzo
4. Fozzie
5. Animal

tho, since 1999 Animal got bumped by Pepe and Rizzo, or at least has to share the 5 spot. So to me after seeing all the online Muppet stuff(youtube, muppets.com, cora kitchen, specials, etc) it's more like
1. Kermit, 2. Piggy 3. Gonzo 4. Fozzie 5. Pepe 6. Animal 7. Rizzo
8. Beaker 9. Swedish Chef 10. Big Mean Carl 11. Bobo 12. Beauregard 13. statler 14. waldorf 15. bunsen 16. sam eagle

Though, remember that time 1988-1992 when Bean Bunny was considered one of the main characters?

Btw, Robin has seemed MIA for awhile. I have noticed one significant changeup: with the new film, they seem to be reverting to a late 70's gang, whereby Scooter and Rowlf have returned to being in the main core. I think it's welcomed, tho again where's Pepe and Rizzo?

 

[beaker]

Just thought of a fun example of how the substance rather than the length of the part can be fun, memorable, and delightfully Muppety. Picture if you will, Link's first line in the movie ends up being something of a tongue-twister and he flubs it up - to which Piggy turns to him and admonishes, "After 30 years, you FINALLY get a line in a Muppet movie and you BLEW IT?" Pepe: "UN-believable. Sometimes the pretty ones should just be seen and not heard, okay."

Brilliant! Oh man, brilliant. Disney should be hiring you.

I think the Muppets are at a place where they can be doing self mockery references, like Rowlf lamenting how he has to take whatever work he can get as times have been tough(Muppets Kitchen with Cat Cora)

Pepe coming in at the end saying "what, Im not classic enough ho'kay? And they think they could just write me out of the script, hun-be-leeveabull!"

I have a feeling theyre going to have a LOT of fun with the meta referencing.

 

[Drtooth]

More Cameos

Okay, I'm pretty happy with Whoopi and extremely happy with Neil (still wanted him to be the villain, though), but I for one am ticked off by that other one.

Really? A Disney Tween Pop star? This is what I was afraid of and rallying against. Disney DOESN'T need to advertise any of its junk in a Muppet Movie. That's why VMX felt awkward. NBC felt they needed to promote everything under the sun, killing the replayability. And really, Disney has been doing a fine job distancing themselves from the 2005-2009 tweencom movement. Why did they have to muck it up? I hope that one IS a rumor.

 

[dwmckim]

I'm also shouting "WHOOPIE" over Whoopi and as per NPH, IT'S ABOUT TIME! I mean the guy's as much a Muppet Freak as Jason and for them to work on the same show, you know he's had to have bugged him on the set of HIMYM on a daily basis with "you're going to write ME a part, right?", "So what do I get to do in the movie?", "If you don't get me in the movie, I'm not going to tell you where I hid your pants!"

Surprisingly enough, i'm not surprised nor upset over Selina Gomez. Did we expect there wouldn't be at least one token Disney tween star cameo? If it was going to be anyone, i'd rather it be Selina than pretty much anyone else. The girl's way overexposed, sure - but she's also one of the few Disney Channel crop who i feel legitamately deserves her success, is extremely talented, and still seems to be handling her success well (as opposed to Miley or Demi). Her appearance will just get more people interested in and paying tickets for the movie resulting in more potential fans. And besides, given that this is a cameo and not a more substantial role like what Segel, Adams, or Cooper is playing, even if you don't care for her, it shouldn't disrupt from your enjoyment of the movie. Let her have her one to three lines and move on.

 

[Frogpuppeteer]

Im on the same page with most people here hoping pepe atleast show up on screen for this movie, but im going to see and enjoy regardless...i do know i saw him in one promo picture for it so i do have hope. he has become part of the core five for me these past years