The Muppets SPOILER Thread

JimAndFrank

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I miss the days when I would see showers of muppet promos, such a good time, even up to Single All the Way, constant advertising, but after these low ratings there's not much hope, they're not even bothering to advertise the season finale, that's even worse, but I guess ABC has to make room for their endless rampage of generic family sitcoms that are basically the same show, and actually good shows like this and Galavant get cancelled.
This is how I see things:

If the show gets renewed for a second season, then fantastic! If it gets cancelled, it wasn't due to lack of trying. Everyone: the performers, the writers, the producers, the directors and all of us as the fans put our hearts and souls into making this work.

There is no one thing to blame for things going downhill. The marketing was initially pushing it slightly to far with the adult content, which of course created a chain reaction with parental organizations going nuts. The general media didn't appreciate it either. We as the Muppet fandom tried to dispell these concerns, but we are a very small community. We can scream all we want, but it's still like keeping the tide back with a broom.

In hindsight, maybe the mockumentry style could have gone in a different direction. I don't think Piggy should have been the only Muppet on television from the beginning. There could have simply been the Muppets version of Saturday Night Live. We could've had sketches and songs from the get go. And as for the behind-the-scenes stuff, perhaps it could have been better to watch Kermit trying to keep his troops together as a family rather than just as coworkers.

If I had've been tasked with creating the basis for this show, that would have been exactly what I would come up with. It would be reminiscent of TMS, but actually going home with the characters and venturing out into the world. We could go with Kermit to his home swap in Mississippi. We could watch Floyd try to control Animal in a fine china shop. We could actually watch Janice and her friends build that wicker man.

The show has been so focused on relationships and being adult, that it forgot how to be Muppety in a few instances. That started to change with Newman coming in, but now it may be too little too late. For the Muppets to let loose, they had to have a few drinks first. Look at 'Pig Out' or the party at the bachelor pad.

It's like the Muppets can't find the pleasure in mayhem and chaos in this 'real world'. That's what the general public was expecting (aside from the ridiculous notion that Muppets were for the kiddies) and I can't say I blame them.

Just remember that if this all turns to crap, The Muppets have survived Jim's death, MFS, KSY, VMX, MWoO, DC Almost Live and countless other disasters.

We're gonna be okay folks. We're gonna be just fine!
 

Drtooth

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If the show gets renewed for a second season, then fantastic! If it gets cancelled, it wasn't due to lack of trying. Everyone: the performers, the writers, the producers, the directors and all of us as the fans put our hearts and souls into making this work.

There is no one thing to blame for things going downhill. The marketing was initially pushing it slightly to far with the adult content, which of course created a chain reaction with parental organizations going nuts. The general media didn't appreciate it either. We as the Muppet fandom tried to dispell these concerns, but we are a very small community. We can scream all we want, but it's still like keeping the tide back with a broom.

In hindsight, maybe the mockumentry style could have gone in a different direction. I don't think Piggy should have been the only Muppet on television from the beginning. There could have simply been the Muppets version of Saturday Night Live. We could've had sketches and songs from the get go. And as for the behind-the-scenes stuff, perhaps it could have been better to watch Kermit trying to keep his troops together as a family rather than just as coworkers.
I think the problem is one of the scale of Muppet fans who actually watched everything versus casual fans that tune in for one or two projects every so often is the reason this doesn't have the audience it deserves. Face it. As fans who followed every DTV movie, every 5 minute appearance on talk shows, and every cameo in some awful project (Remember the Jessica Simpsons Variety Special?), some of us are far more excited by a shake up or change of the characters' venue than those who haven't watched anything significant since the first comeback movie or earlier. There are those of us who liked that this was supposed to be post 2000 era sitcomy, and felt it was a fresh change.

While I don't doubt they should have done crazier stuff and that could have totally fit in the format they had, the writers tried something new and spent several episodes trying to get the formula to work with the characters, only to have to redo everything to try and fit what could have fit there in the first place. I'll get that it would have had slightly better ratings if they had more chickens and penguins running around. But the key word is slightly. Even if the show was a perfect remake of the Muppet Show that didn't come off as a retread, I'm sure the ratings would have sucked also. I've been saying this for years, The Muppets can't exist in today's TV markets. On the one hand, anything they were going to go up against was going to hurt them. Unless it was Friday, which unless you're that incredibly terrible Last Man Standing, is a death sentence for sitcoms (especially if you follow it). And frankly, the Muppets never did well in prime time broadcast network slots. NBC pretty much pretended JHH didn't exist (though the unwieldy hour long always switching format had trouble drawing that audience in), and Muppets Tonight wasn't pulling in Boy Meets World numbers, so they threw around the time slot, produced a second season, and dumped it on Disney when they still had diverse programming.

The show deserves a second season on the merits of giving them a second chance, but that's clearly not going to be in the cards barring some miracle on ABC's part. Not saying the first season of The Muppet Show sucked, but they had some weak concepts and characters that didn't click. Heck, Miss Piggy didn't even have a solid performer (let alone a good looking puppet). Beaker didn't come in until season 2, and we all know about the value of that character. And I think we can all agree, at least it didn't turn out like the Cutesy Poo Poo Valentines Show pilot (though a Muppet show like Sex and Violence would have been awesome). If this show got a second season where everything is perfected and more Muppety, we can write season one off as struggling to find that common ground between a format that works on modern television and Muppet brand mayhem. Writing this stuff isn't easy, yet some of its competition seems to be. I'm not going to be upset if it doesn't. It simply wasn't meant to be.

Then again, I have to add, if wacky off the wall classic Muppety stuff is what the public wanted, why did they avoid MMW? The movie going audience couldn't all have been taken in by another crappily produced Tween Dystopia franchise written by someone that peaked at a Cliff Notes of "The Fountain head" once. I'm guessing the original title of "The Muppets...Again" was shockingly accurate, but that's a long rant I'm not going into. I have a feeling that no matter what, the Muppet supposedly loving audience would've bailed a few episodes in anyway because they still wouldn't get that warm fuzzy "watching an old tape of TMM at Grandma's house" nostalgia they wanted. Sure, they probably want a T-Shirt or a Christmas ornament, and probably bought one of the comics once.

Of course, it's embarrassing that Grandfathered was a bigger flop, but I bet Fox will renew that. Probably got a ratings boost from New Girl.
 

minor muppetz

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I've seen some people say that ABC doesn't want to pay to advertise the show if it looks like it'll be canceled, but do channels have to pay to advertise their own shows on their channels? Not sure if they'd have to pay residuals/royalties to anything that appears in the clips, but I would think they wouldn't have to pay (themselves?) for advertising on their own channels.

Though the time spent advertising their own programming is time that could have been spent advertising the sponsors.
 

jobi71

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I've seen some people say that ABC doesn't want to pay to advertise the show if it looks like it'll be canceled, but do channels have to pay to advertise their own shows on their channels? Not sure if they'd have to pay residuals/royalties to anything that appears in the clips, but I would think they wouldn't have to pay (themselves?) for advertising on their own channels.

Though the time spent advertising their own programming is time that could have been spent advertising the sponsors.
I think your second point might be more the case. If they can use the commercial time to make some profit that's more appealing then promoting a show that has pretty much levelled off on its ratings. An ad may not bring in more viewers. I do know Jack White (guest star in the last episode) has posted on his Facebook promoting the show and his appearance and I have seen on social media people excited about Willie Nelson's appearance and the return of Vets Hospital. ABC may see this very targeted marketing to be a better option.
 

minor muppetz

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There's something I've been wondering (that we'll know within a few days): Will the last two episodes air back-to-back as separate episodes (meaning they both have the opening title and end credits), or will it air as a full hour (with the opening and end credits only appearing once), only to be split into two half-hours for later broadcasts?
 

jobi71

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There's something I've been wondering (that we'll know within a few days): Will the last two episodes air back-to-back as separate episodes (meaning they both have the opening title and end credits), or will it air as a full hour (with the opening and end credits only appearing once), only to be split into two half-hours for later broadcasts?
Very good question. I am guessing they were conceived as two separate episodes. (Maybe not) But I am also curious how we go from episode 15 to episode 16.
 

Muppet Master

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This is how I see things:

If the show gets renewed for a second season, then fantastic! If it gets cancelled, it wasn't due to lack of trying. Everyone: the performers, the writers, the producers, the directors and all of us as the fans put our hearts and souls into making this work.

There is no one thing to blame for things going downhill. The marketing was initially pushing it slightly to far with the adult content, which of course created a chain reaction with parental organizations going nuts. The general media didn't appreciate it either. We as the Muppet fandom tried to dispell these concerns, but we are a very small community. We can scream all we want, but it's still like keeping the tide back with a broom.

In hindsight, maybe the mockumentry style could have gone in a different direction. I don't think Piggy should have been the only Muppet on television from the beginning. There could have simply been the Muppets version of Saturday Night Live. We could've had sketches and songs from the get go. And as for the behind-the-scenes stuff, perhaps it could have been better to watch Kermit trying to keep his troops together as a family rather than just as coworkers.

If I had've been tasked with creating the basis for this show, that would have been exactly what I would come up with. It would be reminiscent of TMS, but actually going home with the characters and venturing out into the world. We could go with Kermit to his home swap in Mississippi. We could watch Floyd try to control Animal in a fine china shop. We could actually watch Janice and her friends build that wicker man.

The show has been so focused on relationships and being adult, that it forgot how to be Muppety in a few instances. That started to change with Newman coming in, but now it may be too little too late. For the Muppets to let loose, they had to have a few drinks first. Look at 'Pig Out' or the party at the bachelor pad.

It's like the Muppets can't find the pleasure in mayhem and chaos in this 'real world'. That's what the general public was expecting (aside from the ridiculous notion that Muppets were for the kiddies) and I can't say I blame them.

Just remember that if this all turns to crap, The Muppets have survived Jim's death, MFS, KSY, VMX, MWoO, DC Almost Live and countless other disasters.

We're gonna be okay folks. We're gonna be just fine!
The one thing that I don't like is how much dialouge they throw at us that we never get to see them, for example Bobo's army buddies or maybe even flashbacks of him in the army a la Brooklyn Nine-Nine or the wicker man you mentioned, but I still love the show, and no matter how good it was going to be there would still be tons of complaints about Kermit's voice or no Big Bird or random garbage like that. Also, they should not have marketed it as adult that basically made it lose any chance it had at being popular, they didn't advertise MT as an adult show, and that had just as much adult content, the whole balloons joke in the Cindy Crawford episode is probably more adult than most of what's been on the show. I've read a comment somewhere that the muppets are basically prisoners of their own fandom as whatever they do will be shunned by the old school fans because it wasn't exactly what they saw in 1978 and complan about how after Jim's death nothing the muppets have done have been good, the other fans want them to do new things, but are too few to make much of a group. Just think the 9 million viewers for the premiere was mostly causal fans or hey I watched Big Bird and Miss Piggy when I was a kid, I can't wait to be nostalgic again. The 2 million viewers who watch the show now are the actual fnas, but ya sadly there's too few of us to make a difference in the ratings.
 
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