The Muppets Kitchen with Cat Cora

[beaker]

Some fans are easier to please. I wanted to like Angelo, but I don't see that happening. Also, where's the usual putting-on-a-show excitement that endears us to the Muppets? I'd love to see Scooter giving notes and helpful tips behind the camera and some fun Muppet goofiness. Maybe have Animal eat all the ingredients and have Cat and company have to make a meal with limited resources. I'm just not buying no matter how much I want to. Thank Frog for the movie because if this was the only Muppet project out there I'd cry. Again, it's okay...but aside from some Muppet side-bits, it's just not Muppet quality. At least not yet.

Well it's obvious the show is rather quaint...err, to put it more bluntly, tumbleweeds with a side of crickets. On one hand, Im eager to see ANY new Muppet or Henson Alternative work no matter the quality...just to see it out there.

On the other hand, like you said it lacks a pop. We've seen Martha Stewart work with Sesame characters, and it works. Angelo seems to have that Muppets Tonight second fiddle whatnot blandness. But you're right, it seems if you're going to call it "Muppets Kitchen: Cooking with Cat Cora" it should star either an established character or one that is a strong fit(or a revolving roster of helpers)

Then again...this is just a webisode thing, and it's not like it's even on tv. Hence why I take the "well least its the muppets and something new" approach than get too nitpicky.

Also...seriously, that Gonzo design has to go. What happened to the Muppets.com and Letters to Santa puppet?

 

[beaker]

Oh, certainly not. Subtlety isn't my strong suit. Why would you think I wrote that to you personally or meant it as an insult? Even if I'd lost my social graces for a minute it certainly wouldn't be at you or ambiguous. I just think that some fans are by nature easier to please. Some fans will never be pleased. I fall comfortably in between, but on the positive side in that I want to like all the Muppets' projects no matter how odd.

I love the YouTube clips. latest appearances, Give A Day advertisements and Muppets.com clips. I just can't get behind this particular project. It's such a bizarre concept and it would have been nice if they could take the ball and run with it. There's value here, but it's being watered down.

I think we all have both the pessimist and overly enthusiastic sides to us. While some fans are excited about anything new coming out, and some are naturally cynical(or stuck thinking the Muppets are purely "classic" in a 1970's sort of way) I think it's good to just go by a case x case basis.

The Give a Day commercials, LOST Slap Down, Youtube, and Muppets.com content is nothing short of amazing. For those that have cast doubt on the post JH era Muppets, they need to check those out. I think Disney has more than proved that they understand the Muppets and continually allow amazing writing and direction.

 

[beaker]

It seems like he was just created on the fly and they tried too hard to create a new character that looks too general compared to the rest, plus they shoehorn that character into a part that could have been filled by one with more familiarity to both hardcore and casual fans. (I feel the same way about Murray on Sesame Street).

Whoah whoah whoah...I agree with you 100% on every single point you made(and man do we need more Rowlf like something fierce!)
but you don't like Murray? In my 30 plus years of watching Muppety stuff, I'd have to say Murray is leaps and bounds one of the most amazing and quirky fun new characters Ive seen in ages. In a perfect world I'd like to see that heckspawn Elmo permenantly axed and replaced by Murray or Telly. But the Murray/Ovijita dynamic is just grand in my view.
Plus I mean, it's Muppets in real life settings...never gets better than that.

 

[beaker]

The idea of a dog cooking dinner is funny. (People still love seeing Snoopy make a Thanksgiving meal from toast, popcorn, pretzels and jellybeans). Sure, Rowlf would make some bad jokes during the show, but we know he's sensible and we can trust him not to mess things up. Rowlf's also got live hands, which would come in handy. Get it? (rimshot).

Convincing John

It's interesting how in the first wave of the Muppets(1955-1975)
Rowlf was the main character next to Kermit. From Jimmy Dean to the origins of Sesame Street segment. In the second wave(1976-1989) he was there but took a more backseat approach. And sadly in the third wave(1990-present) he is practically non existent.

In one of the Muppet Kitchen episodes, I love how Rowlf references his tough time landing any Muppet parts, or "ruff time"

And while were on the subject, some other characters from The Jim Henson Hour that didn't quite make it big were Beard, Flash, Digit, Ubu, Chip, and Zondra (later known as Daci on the Muppets Tonight UK sketches.)

Although Chip and Flash have made some background appearances in later projects.

I believe Zondra has been used since MT? I LOVE the look and personality of Digit, Leon, Lindburgh, etc but they are definitely a product of that experimental late 80's creature shop meets Muppet look they were going for. Still, I'd love to see Digit reappear somewhere down the road...especially with the technology boom going on.

 

[beaker]

Clifford's design is striking. He's a colorful, beautiful and dynamic puppet even without eyes. There's so much that's expressive about his shape and flexibility and it's partly why I dug Clifford okay on the Henson Hour even though I felt he took some time away from the Mayhem.

He later regressed to some sort of playa' and then introduced himself as a "homey made of foamy" on the first episode of Muppets Tonight. Clifford had a lot of work to do to win me back after that and he ultimately rose to the occasion (only to be diffused again by his rote "Shanaynay" comment in MFS). He really should have a Scooter role under Kermit's direction in MT, but hindsight is 20/20.

That's what mystifies me about the way they just dropped Angelo into the mix. I think Disney is considering this as more of a small toss-away project rather than something they'd like to endure for years to come. Poor Angelo has the deck already stacked against him and the production hasn't facilitated him to connect with viewers very much. He's merely seen as a bland impostor to casual fans and an interloper to some die-hard fans like me.

I want to like this funky project and the Muppet segments are fantastic! It's the rest of the show that's not really working for me. This criticism isn't personally directed at any forum member or Muppet performer. It's meant to be constructive and communicative. This is a forum after all. We're not meant to passively agree. I've enjoyed most projects under Henson and the Muppets (with the exception of the more youth-targeted stuff like Muppet Babies cartoon, Kermit's Swamp Years, Elmo in Grouchland, Muppets From Space or overly niche marketed stuff like MirrorMask and Buddy.). But for everything I don't like there are plenty of fans who find a favorite.

Oh the puppet build of Clifford is amazing and quite striking. I thought Clifford was perfect as the host of Muppets Tonight. We have to remember that at the time there was a perception of the need for an urban(read: black) persona for "hip" credability in the 1990's. I see nothing wrong with Clifford becoming "blacker" just as Statler and Waldorf are homages to retirement home old white guys(or Sam the Eagle being a spoof of stodgy conservatism)
I do miss Clifford, I resent the Elmo takeover if nothing else than the fact it robbed us of future Kevin Clash Muppet performances(watching Clash in person is astonishing, as he has a mastery of making his characters look around and engage the audience even when he himself is not talking)

Im taken aback to your disliking of Muppet Babies. We're about the rough similar age, I find it hard to imagine you not falling in love with the imaginative magic Muppet Babies wove each Saturday morning. I just got done downloading all 8 seasons, and just looking at a random selection of the 84-88 episodes, Im taken aback by how soothing and interesting it plays all these years later(Little Muppet Monsters on the other hand, the 3 episodes I saw were rather attrocious) Muppets From Space had a solid gold first 15 minutes, and there's things about it I did like. And Mirrormask, while it does become a bit boring after repeated viewings, has some striking qualities I feel.

I still don't think that there is anything necessarily wrong with Angelo. He is only seen in this web show, and I am not worried about the kids not knowing who the Swedish Chef is. The Muppets Studio is obviously not going to let people forget about him.

One off newer Muppet characters I think had wayyyy more pizazz and flair were Joe The Armadillo(sadly relegated to the 15 minute behind the scenes segment on the Kermit Swamp Years dvd) and Mo Frackle(who only appeared on a 2001 Family Feud episode) Im glad Disney made the decision to make Big Mean Carl one of the new prominent characters, as he is just an amazing puppet build and persona.

Angelo to me works on a general level, but doesn't really feel like a proper Muppet character

 

[frogboy4]

...a little off topic, but it goes full circle

Oh the puppet build of Clifford is amazing and quite striking. I thought Clifford was perfect as the host of Muppets Tonight.... I see nothing wrong with Clifford becoming "blacker" just as Statler and Waldorf are homages to retirement home old white guys...I do miss Clifford...

Im taken aback to your disliking of Muppet Babies. We're about the rough similar age, I find it hard to imagine you not falling in love with the imaginative magic Muppet Babies wove each Saturday morning... Muppets From Space had a solid gold first 15 minutes, and there's things about it I did like. And Mirrormask, while it does become a bit boring after repeated viewings, has some striking qualities I feel.

One off newer Muppet characters I think had wayyyy more pizazz and flair were Joe The Armadillo...he is just an amazing puppet build and persona.

Angelo to me works on a general level, but doesn't really feel like a proper Muppet character

No Muppet old or new should have usurped Kermit's role, but it wasn't the purple dude's fault. I don't really have a problem with him making ethnic references, but many of the ones he employed seemed forced. He's best when he just lets the humor happen regardless of his purple dreads.

Not to get this too off topic, but we've discussed my personal dislike for the Muppet Babies several times before and I always get flamed for it. I respect those who like it...I just didn't stay on past the first season. There was much to like about it: live footage composition techniques, music arrangements, the morals were good and they did seem to connect with younger audiences. I just didn't like some of the high pitched squeaky voices and felt this overexposure of the babies kiddified the Muppet Show cast. I've also seen projects with smaller budgets with higher quality animation than on the program. Just not my particular taste.

Joe the Armadillo should definitely stick around. I love that guy!

I understand what MirrorMask was shooting for. I just disagreed. I'm Western-minded when it comes to cinema. I prefer linear storytelling and plot over style. I found the film to be a very pretty mess. It was better suited for movie of the week on basic cable like SciFi. Just my opinion. Henson should have given the budget over to the Dark Crystal movie, but I know things don't quite work that way.

Back to Angelo. Well, I haven't completely given up on the concept of him. I just wish they'd rework him a bit, but it seems that these episodes are already in the can. It's great to see the Muppets back in action anyway. I'll just overlook the furry yellow guy.

 

[Convincing John]

In a perfect world I'd like to see that heckspawn Elmo permenantly axed and replaced by Murray or Telly.

Murray, no. Telly, yes.

I agree that Telly should get more exposure. He's a very dimensional, well-rounded, yet underappreciated character. As for Murray...

One of the reasons I don't really dig Murray is because of his overuse on the show. Think of how many Murray segments you see in each episode. Plus, he does segments that we all know could be done much better with seasoned SS veterans. Letter of the Day was handled expertly by Prairie and Cookie Monster. Number of the Day is best done by Sesame Street's number expert:

Near and far...we ALL know that's Grover's bit!

It's like you want to hear original music by the original artists, but all you can find are cover band CDs that the music store claims are "much better".

The design of the puppet, like Angelo, strikes me as awkward, too. If Murray is supposed to be a "kid" like the other Sesame Street monsters, then I can only say one thing: trim the beard! The only other SS character I've seen with more excess facial hair is Big Jeffy (but not by much).

I also have a theory that once he moved up the ladder at SW, Joey just wanted an 'Elmo' of his own. The two characters are similar in a lot of ways: red fur, extremely energetic, mostly happy, interacts with a pet as a best friend, takes up a lot of screen time...

Plus I mean, it's Muppets in real life settings...never gets better than that.

Right. It's a very appealing technique done before: The Muppet Movie, the Traveling Matt segments, etc.

The same character dynamic could easily be accomplished with Telly doing his "Monster on the Spot" bits at schools, talking to kids. Oscar could pop up and either heckle him or find something about the school he likes. One Murray bit involved "Farm School". Instead of Murray, we'd see Telly interacting with kids, seeing the animals, learning about how things grow, etc. Meanwhile, Oscar would get excited over seeing pigs (and pigpens), compost heaps, loud farm machinery and tractor smoke.

I'm not trying to change the subject, now. It's all part of that "lets-make-a-new-character-as-a-main-character-instead-of-an-established-one-the-fans-already-know" syndrome that happens with some Muppet productions. We've compared Angelo with Clifford. I think that some would agree that Murray can be compared with Angelo in this way, too.

But back to just Angelo and the structure of the show. I think DrTooth had a point by suggesting Angelo be a Whatnot that the audience mistakenly sees, just like those background people in cooking shows (or the news) you aren't supposed to see.

Whatnots (or other characters) in the shot by accident are funny. Just look at this video at the 6:55 mark. To me, it was even funnier than the news report.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmfU15qzb1o

Of course Bobo would work as an assistant, too...or Fozzie. It would even be funny to see Scooter make a cameo. He'd see the oven timer and tell Cat "Fifteen seconds till the cake's done!"

Convincing John

 

[Luke]

I still don't think that there is anything necessarily wrong with Angelo. He is only seen in this web show, and I am not worried about the kids not knowing who the Swedish Chef is. The Muppets Studio is obviously not going to let people forget about him.

I don't really agree there, the kids are just being introduced to the Muppets. If Angelo really did become popular (ok, hypothetical talk lol) and kids became to know him as the Muppets "Chef", and the market they were most trying to target were kids ... well, they'd have no choice but to keep him as the main Chef. It'd just be too confusing otherwise.

Overall though i agree it's fun, but it doesn't "pop". I really do think some politics have got in the way of this being really good.

 

[Drtooth]

Not to get this too off topic, but we've discussed my personal dislike for the Muppet Babies several times before and I always get flamed for it. I respect those who like it...I just didn't stay on past the first season. There was much to like about it: live footage composition techniques, music arrangements, the morals were good and they did seem to connect with younger audiences. I just didn't like some of the high pitched squeaky voices and felt this overexposure of the babies kiddified the Muppet Show cast. I've also seen projects with smaller budgets with higher quality animation than on the program. Just not my particular taste.

All I can say about it is... imagine if they got TMS to do the outsourced Japanese animation instead of Toei. The stuff they've done with Ducktales, Tiny Toons, and even Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (ironically, since they also did Sonic x years later for Japan) was amazing. Toei seemed a bit stiff. But really, the last season with the Korean or Taiwanese animation was much worse. Ugly color choices, inconsistencies. Wrong people speaking out of the wrong voice. But that's all I gotta say about that.

I have to meet everyone half way and say this. I don't really think the project was meant for us, but they should have tried a little harder to make the Muppet spirit more throughout. Especially since the recipes are enclosed. It really seems that Cat Cora wants more to work along side the Muppets, not specifically with them. Angelo clearly came out of that. Someone who isn't really insanely funny to overshadow her presence. Seems like somehow they said "Wanna do a show with the Muppets?" and she thought "OOH! I wanna work with Elmo."

Somehow, it seems like this would be better suited for Sesame Street characters. I'll give it that. Murray would be amazing in it, actually. That's what we REALLY need. Murray and Ovejita hosting an online kid's cooking show.

That said, I still give this credit for making ACTUAL food and not just frosting store bought cookies to look like stuff like I was afraid this thing would turn into. Not their strongest project, but then again, it really was a hit or miss idea anyway, and they're still doing a might better than I originally expected. They REALLY need to go back to virals, though. Those are beyond amazing.

 

[Mupp]

...well, they'd have no choice but to keep him as the main Chef.

Pfft...That will NEVER happen.