The Muppets Bechdel Test (re. Female roles)

[Beauregard]

There's some debate at the moment enough whether or not The Muppets passes the Bechdel test which states that to pass the test a movie must:

1. Have at least two (named) women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

Some are saying that it passes only test 1, by having Amy, Miss Piggy, Janice, Camilla and Wanda.

But others are saying it passes 1 and 2, by having Miss Piggy talk to Miss Poogy (assuming Poogy is female)

There is some debate whether Piggy and Poogy's fight/talk is technically about a man, though, since she mostly came back for Kermit (although she claims to have come back for the others.)

http://bechdeltest.com/view/2889/the_muppets

So, what do you think? And, do the other Muppet Movies pass this test?

 

[Hubert]

Hmm...here's my breakdown of each Muppet movie, and what I think:

The Muppet Movie
1. There are more than two
2. I don't think any of Miss Piggy, Janice, Camilla, etc. talked to each other during the movie actually...

The Great Muppet Caper
1. There are more than two
2. Lady Holliday and Miss Piggy converse
3. It isn't about a man at all, so I guess GMC passes

The Muppets Take Manhattan
1. There are more than two
2. Jenny and Miss Piggy converse
3. It is about the show, not a man, so I guess TMTM also passes

The Muppet Christmas Carol
1. There are more than two
2. Betina, Belinda, and Miss Piggy, do talk to each other, but it isn't a real conversation, so does that count?
3. If it does count, it wasn't about a man

Muppet Treasure Island
1. There are more than two
2. Considering that Miss Piggy was the only real main female character, I don't think that two females conversed

Muppets From Space
1. There are more than two
2. Miss Piggy talks with the reporter briefly, so if that counts, then two do converse
3. If it does count, it wasn't about a man

The Muppets' Wizard of Oz
1. There are more than two
2. Dorothy talks to Miss Piggy as a witch
3. It wasn't about a man, so I guess MWOO passes

The Muppets
1. There are more than two
2. Miss Piggy talks to Miss Poogy, who I think is a female
3. It was technically about a man, so really, I don't think that this one counts.

 

[Beauregard]

Thanks! I knew someone with a greater knowledge would compile a good list! I'm pretty sure that Muppets From Space does count, since it was a discussion about a job and the reporter is named...although I forget what. Shelly?

In Very Merry Muppet Christmas, Miss Piggy kinda talks to Miss Bitterman when they have their fight, and it isn't man related. But does that count as a conversation?

 

[Slackbot]

Fraggle Rock passes with flying colors, as Red and Mokey talk all the time, and is it ever about men?

I love to hear references to this litmus test. I've been a fan of D2Wo4 ever since the early strips, and I have a set of the books.

 

[Drtooth]

Fraggle Rock passes with flying colors, as Red and Mokey talk all the time, and is it ever about men?

I love to hear references to this litmus test. I've been a fan of D2Wo4 ever since the early strips, and I have a set of the books.

How come Fraggle Rock is so much better at organic female roles (ones played by females no less) than all the other Muppet stuff put together? And does The Muppet Show really need that? Those are the questions to think about.

 

[Hubert]

Thanks! I knew someone with a greater knowledge would compile a good list! I'm pretty sure that Muppets From Space does count, since it was a discussion about a job and the reporter is named...although I forget what. Shelly?

In Very Merry Muppet Christmas, Miss Piggy kinda talks to Miss Bitterman when they have their fight, and it isn't man related. But does that count as a conversation?

Oh yeah. Shelly Snipes. I couldn't remember the name.

I would say IAVMMCM would count, as it is a pretty full out fleshed argument, so I would classify that as a conversation.

 

[minor muppetz]

I can't believe there's any doubt that Miss Poogy is female. Though I recall before the movie came out some fans seemed to speculate that Miss Poogy was a man in drag, and I think Matt Vogel hinted at that in a pre-The Muppets interview, but the movie doesn't seem to show any such indication that she's a man.

After all, when Miss Poogy is first shown as Miss Piggy's replacement, Fozzie says "She's sort of like Miss Piggy". He knew her better than the rest, so he would know her gender (though I feel that line should have gone to one of the others, someone who hadn't met her).

 

[CensoredAlso]

1. Have at least two (named) women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

I always kind of laugh in MTM when Piggy lightly admonishes Janice after her latest naked story joke. Not because of the naked joke but because I always think, "Wow, I wasn't sure Piggy even knew Janice!" Lol

Not that I think they should have necessarily had more scenes together. Some characters don't have chemistry and it wouldn't work. Saying that two female characters have to talk to each other is one of those broad stroke quota things rather than actual quality writing.

 

[Beauregard]

I always kind of laugh in MTM when Piggy lightly admonishes Janice after her latest naked story joke. Not because of the naked joke but because I always think, "Wow, I wasn't sure Piggy even knew Janice!" Lol.

I guess you didn't see that very rare, very occasional sketch they sometimes did from time to time on the Muppet Show, commonly known as Vet's Hospital?

 

[CensoredAlso]

I guess you didn't see that very rare, very occasional sketch they sometimes did from time to time on the Muppet Show, commonly known as Vet's Hospital?

Lol, oh I know I was thinking more in the movieverse. Besides to me Vet's Hospital is more like a sketch than character interaction if that makes sense.