The LETDOWN of Disney

[spcglider]

I don't think it's Hollywood really.
American kids are just different. You go to Europe and comics (and the Muppets) are much bigger. But here in the states it's going to be a tough sell. Kermit doesn't carry a gun, fight aliens or drive a fast car. He is just an extraordinary amphibian in a human world. I just don't know if that's enough to hook today's kids.

If it is, it'd have been done by now.

If you notice, you don't see many younger fans around here. There is a reason for that.

I would posit that you don't see many younger fans around here because the majority of kids haven't been exposed to the Muppets (differentiated from Seasme Street Muppets) on a weekly basis like we were as kids.

Here's a true story: The Transformers exist ONLY because Hasbro forced them onto the scene. ALL American focus groups with kids showed that the Transformer toys were intrinsically lacking in play value. The kids would figure out how they worked and drop them in favor of playing ball. Hasbro had so much money sunk into the toys license with the japanese, they had no choice but to create a completely new cartoon show to SELL those toys. Obviously it paid off.

Kids wouldn't have even given Transformers the time of day if it hadn't ben for an all-out multimillion dollar campaign to TELL them that they were cool and fun.

We KNOW the Muppets appeal to kids. That shouldn't even be in the equation... its been proven with imperical evidence for 50 years. And that appeal isn't strictly germain to children. Also proven over the past 50 years.

So, if the Transformers could go from being UNdesirable to the hottest cartoon property of the 1980's (and arguably the 1990's) with the application of a little "exposure cash", imagine the foam and fleece juggernaut that could be set in motion with the Muppets if only a competent and well funded push were made by Disney.

I think that might be the crux of all of our consternation.

-Gordon

 

[SarahOnBway]

I agree with SPC (and I'm sorry that rhymes). I don't think the reason the Muppets aren't uber-popular is because American kids are different and can't accept the Muppets, I think it's because they haven't been exposed to them.

I have two personal examples to give. First, my sister Caitlin is 17. She grew up loving the Muppets, not nearly as much as I did, but I very vividly remember watching The Muppet Hour on Nickelodeon with her and singing "Something Better" on the front steps after dinner. Then, hey, guess what, she grew up, and outside of our little circle, the Muppets aren't "cool". She forgot what makes the Muppets special and really only thought of them as kiddie things (this coincided with the birth of my baby sister, so the majority of Muppet stuff in our house was vastly outnumbered by Sesame Street things). But every year we all watch A Muppet Christmas Carol (and more recently VMMXM) at Christmas time and all sing along, and I can tell she likes it even though she denies it. Last weekend when my family met up in Connecticut (halfway between me in NY and them in MA), Rose was playing a Sesame Street mix I had made her and "Imagine That" came on and Caitlin flipped out and was like "I LOVE THIS SONG!" and sang along to all of the words. And the whole time she's like "remember he's like riding on a horse? Yeah, and he tips his hat! Haha!" And she even said that it was awesome. That's the big problem with the tween through young adult age group--if they have been exposed to the Muppets, they think they're just for kids, but if they really experienced them, and they liked them, they would probably deny it because of the greater perseption of them.

My second example is kind of two roled into one. Like I said, my little sister Rose was born when I was 13 and 1/2 and so I obviously had a lot of conscious influence on her. Basically, I made her like the Muppets. And she LOVES them. She especially loves the newer-ish movies (she's only 7) because their probably geared a bit younger than the original three. When I got Season 1 literally the day it came out (hehe), she sat and watched every episode with me. Over Christmas I introduced her to Fraggle Rock and the girl is obsessive. She's mentioned to me a couple of times that no one in her school knows the Muppets really and not even the teachers know what Fraggle Rock is, and it makes her sad, but I tell her then that she has to teach them who they are. And she agrees, and says that it's important they know.

About three years ago I started working as a personal assistant to a woman who had one son, Cody, just 2 months younger than Rose. He had never heard of the Muppets at all. So I showed him Muppets Take Manhattan. He loved it and wanted more. So one by one I showed him all of the movies, including Labyrinth and The Dark Crystal, then S1, then Dinosaurs. He loves them all. His friends don't really know the Muppets outside of Sesame Street either, but he's not shy about saying how he really likes them and encouraging his friends to watch.

So, yeah. I think it's important kids get to experience the Muppets, otherwise they'll be missing out on so much that's, you know, positively influenced my life and really meant a lot to me and so many other people. It's not that Americans don't get the Muppets--Cody is as violent and rude as any other American 7-year-old, and one of his favorite movies is Jurassic Park, but he still loves and appreciates the Muppets. They just need ACCESS to them. This is where Disney comes in.

But things are obviously brewing. I haven't given up hope yet.

(Side note: I hardly ever give up hope. Apparently I'm an optimist hehe.)

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't think the reason the Muppets aren't uber-popular is because American kids are different and can't accept the Muppets, I think it's because they haven't been exposed to them.

I agree, children have not changed as much as the experts seem to think. Kids barely get to see The Muppets properly, then when they've barely heard of them, everyone says "Oh, guess it doesn't work anymore!"

but I tell her then that she has to teach them who they are. And she agrees, and says that it's important they know.

Absolutely! Word of mouth is very effective. If the major companies don't provide, it's up to parents and everyone else to pass it on.

I saw an old Sesame Street VHS in my library's book store recently. I was tempted to buy it, but then I heard a little girl asking her father for it. I took up my courage and mentioned that it was one of the better SS tapes. He thanked me and got it for his daughter. And it didn't even have Elmo on the cover! (Nothing against Elmo, just that every SS book and tape these days HAS TO have him on the cover, as though they think it won't sell without him.)

 

[lowercasegods]

I would posit that you don't see many younger fans around here because the majority of kids haven't been exposed to the Muppets (differentiated from Seasme Street Muppets) on a weekly basis like we were as kids.

Here's a true story: The Transformers exist ONLY because Hasbro forced them onto the scene. ALL American focus groups with kids showed that the Transformer toys were intrinsically lacking in play value. The kids would figure out how they worked and drop them in favor of playing ball. Hasbro had so much money sunk into the toys license with the japanese, they had no choice but to create a completely new cartoon show to SELL those toys. Obviously it paid off.

Kids wouldn't have even given Transformers the time of day if it hadn't ben for an all-out multimillion dollar campaign to TELL them that they were cool and fun.

We KNOW the Muppets appeal to kids. That shouldn't even be in the equation... its been proven with imperical evidence for 50 years. And that appeal isn't strictly germain to children. Also proven over the past 50 years.

So, if the Transformers could go from being UNdesirable to the hottest cartoon property of the 1980's (and arguably the 1990's) with the application of a little "exposure cash", imagine the foam and fleece juggernaut that could be set in motion with the Muppets if only a competent and well funded push were made by Disney.

I think that might be the crux of all of our consternation.

-Gordon

This is beyond a shadow of a doubt the single most well thought out and intelligently conveyed message I've ever read on Muppet Central. Gordon, thank you for validating my decision to come back the the Muppet Central boards. It has been entirely worth it to read your thoughts on the Muppets and other pop culture icons.

 

[dwayne1115]

I just bought Muppets take manhatten on my pay day. My new family where not too familier with the muppets besides Sesame Street, so this was going to be a typ of test to see if anyone would watch it. I put it in without really telling my kids what it was,my girlfriend new cause she was with me when i bought it. We all sat down to watch it, my girlfriend picked up her book fixing to read. When the movie started the kids heard Kermit scating and one of them said hey thats "the green one" talking about kermit. The movie was going along good and my kids where in grossed with it!!!! Then i trun to look at my girlfriend and she was getting in grossed to!!!! Even when the kids had to get up and go to the bathroom i would pause the moive and they really liked that as well. I really hated to put the youngest 3 to bed, they where 3,4, 5. but my 7 year old watched the whole thing. When The real drama parts of the movie where playing I was getting a little teary eyed as i always do, and so was my girlfriend. This whole test of mine proved to be a succes!!! If the muppets where on t.v full time people who may not really know much about them would watch them.

P.S I think MTM is a good movie to intorduce people to the muppets.

 

[spcglider]

This is beyond a shadow of a doubt the single most well thought out and intelligently conveyed message I've ever read on Muppet Central. Gordon, thank you for validating my decision to come back the the Muppet Central boards. It has been entirely worth it to read your thoughts on the Muppets and other pop culture icons.

Awwww...now you're just rubbin' my rhubarb!

But seriously... I'm a yakker. And like an infinitley huge group of monkeys banging on typewriters... eventually the odds are that I'll type SOMTHING intelligent!

Thanks for the compliment!! You made my day!

-Gordon

 

[spcglider]

I just bought Muppets take manhatten on my pay day. My new family where not too familier with the muppets besides Sesame Street, so this was going to be a typ of test to see if anyone would watch it. I put it in without really telling my kids what it was,my girlfriend new cause she was with me when i bought it. We all sat down to watch it, my girlfriend picked up her book fixing to read. When the movie started the kids heard Kermit scating and one of them said hey thats "the green one" talking about kermit. The movie was going along good and my kids where in grossed with it!!!! Then i trun to look at my girlfriend and she was getting in grossed to!!!! Even when the kids had to get up and go to the bathroom i would pause the moive and they really liked that as well. I really hated to put the youngest 3 to bed, they where 3,4, 5. but my 7 year old watched the whole thing. When The real drama parts of the movie where playing I was getting a little teary eyed as i always do, and so was my girlfriend. This whole test of mine proved to be a succes!!! If the muppets where on t.v full time people who may not really know much about them would watch them.

P.S I think MTM is a good movie to intorduce people to the muppets.

Exactly what I meant by Imperical evidence. I think that everybody here can post a similar story with utmost honesty.

And it is a unique TREAT to be able to introduce some young person to The Muppets (as well as Monty Python, Playmobil, LEGO, the films of Hayao Miyazaki and Dr.Who). Its like opening a huge mental doorway for them. Introducing them to a monumental VISTA for the first view. Its stunning.

I have a friend who always says, "I wish I could read (that book) again for the first time." The same goes for the Muppets. I wish I could view The Muppet Movie again... for the first time. Ahhh... memory. Sitting in the tiny theatre in my home town of Elk River, MN watching and KNOWING what I was seeing was nothing less than triumphant. Flaws? Yes there were flaws, but they did nothing to diminish the overwhelming emotional impact and visual delight. I knew it was going to change everybody who saw it. And I was right. Heady times.

So... how about this thought: Is it possible that the suits at Disney DIDN'T experience the Muppets the way we did? Is THAT the disconnect? Can it be that these people were unindoctrinated when the Mupps were at their zenith? How young ARE these guys? How old? Did they miss "the window"??

Only one thing for it. We all gotta show up at their house and have a good sit-down and SHOW them how to appreciate the true genius of the Muppets.

Lead by example, right?

-Gordon

 

[unclematt]

What does rubbing my rhubarb mean?

 

[spcglider]

What does rubbing my rhubarb mean?

It's a mis-use of a quote from the first Batman movie with Jack Nicholson as the Joker.

He says, "Never rub another man's rhubarb!" Which is undoubtedly some obscure statement meaning "Don't step in my territory".

BUT I was using it to mean, "Awww...now you're just stroking my ego!"

I just liked the alliteration (sp?). It obviously didn't come off the way I was intending it to?

Its a freindly thing. At least I meant it that way.

-Gordon

 

[dwayne1115]

Exactly what I meant by Imperical evidence. I think that everybody here can post a similar story with utmost honesty.

And it is a unique TREAT to be able to introduce some young person to The Muppets (as well as Monty Python, Playmobil, LEGO, the films of Hayao Miyazaki and Dr.Who). Its like opening a huge mental doorway for them. Introducing them to a monumental VISTA for the first view. Its stunning.

I have a friend who always says, "I wish I could read (that book) again for the first time." The same goes for the Muppets. I wish I could view The Muppet Movie again... for the first time. Ahhh... memory. Sitting in the tiny theatre in my home town of Elk River, MN watching and KNOWING what I was seeing was nothing less than triumphant. Flaws? Yes there were flaws, but they did nothing to diminish the overwhelming emotional impact and visual delight. I knew it was going to change everybody who saw it. And I was right. Heady times.

So... how about this thought: Is it possible that the suits at Disney DIDN'T experience the Muppets the way we did? Is THAT the disconnect? Can it be that these people were unindoctrinated when the Mupps were at their zenith? How young ARE these guys? How old? Did they miss "the window"??

Only one thing for it. We all gotta show up at their house and have a good sit-down and SHOW them how to appreciate the true genius of the Muppets.

Lead by example, right?

-Gordon

Well i dont think that we could go to these peoples houses but i have seriously have been thinking. What if we fans had a hand writen letter and then we sent it to all the muppet fans around the world to sing, or several copyes of the same letter. Let the people at Disney know we care, and want the Muppets to do good things. It has worked before anyone remember the Frascape movie sesaon finaly. What about when Disney was going to put TMM and TGM MCC and TMI on pan to scan. How everyone sent letters and all sort of things. Then they put both pan to scan and wide screen.
It was a start to let Disney know that we aren't going to take just anything.
If somone was willing to write it out then i know people would sing and our message would get across.