The girls increasing presence on the show

[SSLFan]

One thing to like about SS these days has to be the increasing presence and use of the girl muppets on the show. After years of "trying to find a lead female role model for our young girl viewers", it seems SW has finally got it right this time. Even though it was already fine with Rosita and Zoe (and even Prairie), IMO, Abby sort of filled out the 'missing piece' of the puzzle. And the past "girl inserts" this season were pretty impressive, at least there was one thing to like about Season 40, hehe.

And I'm really digging the Guess the Seasons Song; reminds you of Classic SS, or before the new format change (which ever year since Season 33 you want to refer to! LOL)

One particular muppet I want to point out is Rosita. It seems in these past 3 or so years Rosita has really "blossomed", sort-to-speak, as a character. Before she was pretty much only used to teach Spanish and thats it, but now it seems she really has developed a more deeper personality than just a "Spanish- teaching monster" (not that there's anything wrong with that). She's taken on much more bigger and important roles, namely in the Talk, Listen, Connect series, and sort of playing the "big sister" role to Zoe and Abby. I really like what the writers are doing with her. She's like a female Telly Monster, definately underrated as far as merchandise goes.

I hope the presence of these girls continues well on into the Seasons to come, since it seems to be working well.

 

[Drtooth]

Ah yes. This is a conversation I find very intriguing.

One thing to like about SS these days has to be the increasing presence and use of the girl muppets on the show. After years of "trying to find a lead female role model for our young girl viewers", it seems SW has finally got it right this time. Even though it was already fine with Rosita and Zoe (and even Prairie), IMO, Abby sort of filled out the 'missing piece' of the puzzle. And the past "girl inserts" this season were pretty impressive, at least there was one thing to like about Season 40, hehe

I'd love to list all the failed female character roles on Sesame Street, but I forget quite a bit of them. Zoe and Rosita have staying power... time will tell with Abby, but I think she's almost there now. Prairie isn't used as much as she used to be, and I really think they should continue on using her on occassion if possible. Betty Lou confuses me. She seemed to be the go to generic female character for the larger part. But there was a time when they had some Betty Lou segments. But the only one I can remember is that "Let's get Physical" parody. And yet, Betty outnumbers Prairie in merchandising.

Seems a lot of Stephanie's characters disappeared when Avenue Q was on Broadway. I have to say, I liked Lulu, but Elizabeth was such a bad one note joke, and Phoebe is just a Monster Clubhouse character. She never even developed personality.

Ruby and Merry are somewhere, but they're a blur to me. Baby Natasha is completely underused, and I wish the Baby Talk segments continued.

It's just so hard to make a female character that seems organic. We need only think Venus, the fifth turtle. Some are just forced in to stop angry letters and as a passive aggressive attempt to get girls to watch a boy's show.

And yet, if you give female characters personality, some group will get offended and take any real human character flaw as a stereotype, leaving a bland Mary Sue that makes the show unbearable and almost insulting. That's why female or non-Caucasian characters scare the heck out of producers and others. Could you imagine complaints that Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin are stereotypes of white male Christians? That's the problem with PC... I agree people shouldn't be offended by hateful or malicious words or thought, but it winds up stifling any actual organic variety and makes any characters seemed forced in. SS has walked that line for years, but thankfully, they found there groove with certain characters.

 

[Muppet Frog]

Well it looks like Rosita, Zoe and Abby are the main female characters on today's show while Prairie appears occassionally at a semi-basis.

 

[SSLFan]

SS has walked that line for years, but thankfully, they found there groove with certain characters.

Yes, indeed. I am really hoping Abby sticks around and appeals to today's demographic(and future ones...). She really is a charming character who still hasn't (along with Rosita AND Zoe) developed into her full potential. Also, Drtooth I'd like to add onto your list Roxie Marie and Alice (Snuffy's sister). While Roxie is retired from the show now, what would you make of Alice's situation? She hasn't appeared on the show since Season 33 I recall, yet she still is featured (ousting her big brother even) in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

Really, Alice and Curly Bear could have some GOOD chemistry to build up togehter.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Could you imagine complaints that Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin are stereotypes of white male Christians?

No problem there- Despite both characters going to presumably Christian denomination churches on occasion, I've never seen them as Christians certainly. Their actions definitely betray that. (They both can be funny at times, but I don't care much for either show really- sorry. If anything, Ned Flanders is a perfect example of a huge white male Christian stereotype. And he definitely gets annoying many times because this is the image of Christianity that's portrayed to so many people and so many times he's much more like a Pharisee than like Christ.)

But anyway, I understand your frustration with the whole "politically correct" thing. It's quite annoying. Let's not even mention the whole SuperFriends thing. I mean- hey, it's an Asian superhero! Hey- it's a Mexican superhero! Hey- it's a black superhero! (etc., etc., etc.)
It's like they were trying to be racially diverse but at the same time still wound up being racially stereotypical as the characters wound up just being there all of a sudden with no real background in the comics or anything. At least Black Vulcan was based on Black Lightning (who himself was still a pretty recent DC Comics addition at the time.)

 

[Drtooth]

No problem there- Despite both characters going to presumably Christian denomination churches on occasion, I've never seen them as Christians certainly. Their actions definitely betray that. (They both can be funny at times, but I don't care much for either show really- sorry. If anything, Ned Flanders is a perfect example of a huge white male Christian stereotype. And he definitely gets annoying many times because this is the image of Christianity that's portrayed to so many people and so many times he's much more like a Pharisee than like Christ.)

Well, but that I mean to say Peter and Homer are both stereotypes of what the majority supposedly is. Nice insight... but I was basically using that as a small example of what I mean. That said, Peter is Catholic, and several episodes make references to that. Now his father is the perfect stereotype of an old school Catholic... but that's another story. Plus Homer's basically the guy who says he's Christian and absolutely hates going to church, but goes because he thinks he's obligated to. Again, this is another story, and all part of a point.

But anyway, I understand your frustration with the whole "politically correct" thing. It's quite annoying. Let's not even mention the whole SuperFriends thing. I mean- hey, it's an Asian superhero! Hey- it's a Mexican superhero! Hey- it's a black superhero! (etc., etc., etc.)
It's like they were trying to be racially diverse but at the same time still wound up being racially stereotypical as the characters wound up just being there all of a sudden with no real background in the comics or anything. At least Black Vulcan was based on Black Lightning (who himself was still a pretty recent DC Comics addition at the time.)

Well, to be honest, I'm in the process of watching Superfriends (at least Challenge of the Super Friends) right now, and EVERYONE seems to be devoid of personality... maybe with the exception of the Riddler. I have no problems with diversity at all, to be clear... just the fact that when people try to add diversity they do it wrong.

We get one of two things.

The forced busing of characters that are either female or non-caucasian to fill out a cast, all the while steering clear of making them multi-dimensional, or with any personality flaws (or even positive personality) of any kind. They also do this with characters who are handicapped, saying the character is more than just a character who's in a wheelchair, but that's what they wind up doing, as they always seem like they're just there, don't have any interesting lines and like that. I keep saying, Garret from Extreme Ghostbusters shows you making a character who's different from everybody else and making them organic IS possible. Just stop fretting over it, and writing as if it's someone you know.

The other thing... they add diversity to talking animal movies by specifically going FOR stereotypes and actors/comedians who have thick accents and usually make jokes about what race they are. The characters are ALL about being that race... not to mention making them "real" by having them speak completely in dated 90's slang.

Now Sesame Street has thankfully rarely had these problems. Sure there was the occasional awkward personality devoid character here and there (human and puppet)... but we don't think of Maria and Luis as "those Hispanic characters" or Gordon as "the black guy," we think of them as people. That's what we always need to get at. People ARE people. People have problems. People emote. heck, we think of them either as the grown ups, the parents or the adult friends.

Zoe, Rosita, and Abby all feel organically like friends who happen to be female and like girls things. Abby had a little trial by fire her first season (where she basically popped up and said her catchphrases), but now she feels just like another person living on Sesame Street to me. Just with magic powers. In fact, the character has a LOT of positive and negative personality traits. She seems like she either can shake off a mistake or can take it personally. She's very much a Mama's girl, and doesn't feel stupid asking her for advice... and frankly, that last bit is a very powerful lesson. never be afraid to ask for help.

It would be a shame if only Grover, Oscar, and Cookie could get angry, go crazy, or pass out from exertion and Zoe just stands there saying "Yeah! What he said!"

 

[Convincing John]

They also do this with characters who are handicapped, saying the character is more than just a character who's in a wheelchair, but that's what they wind up doing, as they always seem like they're just there, don't have any interesting lines and like that.

I remember when they tried that on Sesame Street a couple times. There was a girl...Tarah? She was in a wheelchair. What happened with her is just what you described. She just kind of disappeared from the show after a little while.

There was also a monster named Aristotle who was blind. I can't tell you how his episodes went because I've never seen them. I only have the Muppet Wiki to go by.

It would be a shame if only Grover, Oscar, and Cookie could get angry, go crazy, or pass out from exertion and Zoe just stands there saying "Yeah! What he said!"

I know Prairie has had some great freak out moments...especially with Cookie Monster. There was also a "Singing in the Rain" parody where Prairie kept yelling at the stage manager to wake up and get out of her director's chair. "Get out of my seat or I'll fire you!" I laughed at that. The bit reminded me of Rita Moreno's director role from "The Electric Company".

There have been plenty of times the Sesame Street Pageants would go wrong and Prairie would be at the piano, sighing or making Kermit's "what the hey?" face.

Another character who gets angryoften (and is also female) is Grundgetta...but she's a grouch. She's supposed to get angry.

Convincing John

 

[Drtooth]

I know Prairie has had some great freak out moments...especially with Cookie Monster. There was also a "Singing in the Rain" parody where Prairie kept yelling at the stage manager to wake up and get out of her director's chair. "Get out of my seat or I'll fire you!" I laughed at that. The bit reminded me of Rita Moreno's director role from "The Electric Company".

There have been plenty of times the Sesame Street Pageants would go wrong and Prairie would be at the piano, sighing or making Kermit's "what the hey?" face.

Prairie is an amazing character. She's such a clever little caricature of a pretentious little girl who's years ahead of her own age. She tries to do quite a lot, and she seems to be smarter (or at least more sane) than anyone else in a skit. Complaining that a game show's premise is stupid while she's on the game show... annoyed by a narrator over-dramatically narrating her life. She bears such a burnden of being too smart for her age and too uptight at points.

And yet, we get blanketed with Betty Lou merchandise... the generic little girl character who rarely was anything, except for a brief period in the 80's. Go figure

I remember when they tried that on Sesame Street a couple times. There was a girl...Tarah? She was in a wheelchair. What happened with her is just what you described. She just kind of disappeared from the show after a little while.

It was either her or someone else... but she was basically there, they did a generic "Meet everyone on Sesame Street" episode... and the rest of her brief appearance was basically being there, being one of the kids, and having one or 2 lines in a scene... all basically stuff like "I agree!" and "yeah! Let's do that." I can't begrudge the girl who played her at all, by the way. The writers just didn't know what to do with a character like that. The silly thing is, they added a generic wheel chair character for that Dragon Cartoon SW did as well, and... well, I don't see why a magic FLYING dragon needs to be in one of those.

But let's say for arguments sake, we have Garret from Extreme Ghostbusters (and don't give me any of that RGB elitist crap about how "bad" the show was... it was quite good considering ). He was MORE athletic than the characters who were supposedly more able, and actually hustled basketball players (betting for money) before he joined. And in action, he DID have problems, and was knocked off the chair many times, giving a dramatic sense of urgency. He was REAL. That's what someone in that situation, an adventurous athletic sort that just happens to be handicapped. not some personality devoid character people have to walk on eggshells with.

 

[Redsonga]

I seem to be the only fan of Betty Lou. I guess it might have been how she was the it girl in all the books I had growing up, but I was sad when PD sort of ate her character.
I am also a fan of Ruby, who I think could have done a good job at filling the spot Rosita does, at least partly, or could be like a big sister to the whole group. I guess the call for a smart tomboy girl was not very strong in the end *sigh*

As someone with a disability (life long CP with leg braces sometimes) I have to say the whole being good or better at sports thing is not the best way to go ether. I mean there are people that are, but doing the whole 'they can be even better, the best!' thing with characters like that can be just as much overkill as 'this is May, our disabled friend *fadefadefade*' is underkill. It's a matter of seeing that we are people and many are just well, people (that don't need justification for our being), and actually maybe totally bad at body based things, but with totally working minds and emotions