The Creature Shop's work on the original TMNT movies was amazing

[rexcrk]

I've been rewatching the Ninja Turtles movies lately (since I just saw the new one, thought I'd go back and watch the old ones). The first two are such great movies, and part of that is due to the absolutely amazing special effects.

The turtles AND Splinter all look so real, like real living breathing organisms. The Creature Shop really outdid themselves for those movies.

Then of course they didn't work on the third one, and the results were absolutely disastrous >_<

 

[GonzoLeaper]

The Jim Henson Creature Shop did an amazing job on the first two Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies- I definitely agree.
And yes- you can definitely tell the difference in the third movie, though I don't think the third movie is a bad movie- I enjoy all of the first three movies. I enjoy "TMNT" pretty well too.... I haven't been real enthused with this most recent Ninja Turtles movie, so I don't know if I'll see it... I'm kinda thinking I may when it hits the dollar theaters.....

 

[rexcrk]

The new one was pretty good. Obviously I'm a fan from the '90s, but I didn't feel like the new one was "disrespectful" in any way at all. It was basically what I expected from a Ninja Turtles movie that had Michael Bay's name attached to it

 

[Nasubionna]

100% agree. The first TMNT movie is one of my favorite movies of all time, and those Creature Shop turtles will NEVER not look real to me. Simply magical. Of course, they were pretty top-notch in the second film as well, but the more kid-friendly and cartoonified design didn't strike my fancy quite as much as the more realistic ones in the first film.
It makes me depressed that they went with CGI/motion capture for the 2014 TMNT movie. If the Creature Shop created such incredible turtles back in 1990, I can only imagine what they could have come up with nowadays as far as facial expressions, etc. What a shame. But we'll always have those first two movies to enjoy!

 

[Drtooth]

Actually, the kindest thing I could say about TMNT'14 is that the mo-cap suits are a step up from flat CGI paste jobs like you'd see in kid's movies like Alvin and the Chipmunks and Garfield. Even the CGI characters have detail and care behind them... too bad that care didn't go to the script.

While nothing beats the original suits from the first two movies, I doubt anyone would have bothered with something like that ever again. What Henson did was amazing, the third movie less so, and Next Mutation even less. And DO NOT get me started on the horrifying abominations that sang Christmas carols. You could see light through their mouths! I'd say the suits are expensive, even the "you can see the eye holes under the masks" ones from The Next Mutation... the show wasn't cancelled due to low ratings, it was due to high cost. This wasn't exactly 20 year old Japanese footage Saban was playing with this time. But CGI is also very expensive, especially something along the lines of the last movie. Green Lantern didn't lose money because it had a low budget. I give them credit for having actors in suits to be CGI'd over in this one because at least they aren't the same old cheap(er) bouncy Yogi Bears or Jar Jar Binks you usually see.

That said, in all fairness, I hate the second film. Even with the new one, it's still my least favorite. The Henson built suits for the Turts and Tokka and Rahzar were amazing. The dumbing the script down for kiddies and inclusion of the BLAM with Vanilla Ice not so much. I tend to find the first TMNT movie one of the best comic book movies ever made, and especially in the 80's/90's when they weren't a thing and we came off of Howard the Duck among others. They found the right blend of comic series and cartoon, and were actually true to the comics (with characters switched around). The second one was a Casey Jones-less toy commercial and nothing more. Maybe I need another viewing, but I didn't like it last time I saw it, so...

 

[Nasubionna]

Actually, the kindest thing I could say about TMNT'14 is that the mo-cap suits are a step up from flat CGI paste jobs like you'd see in kid's movies like Alvin and the Chipmunks and Garfield. Even the CGI characters have detail and care behind them... too bad that care didn't go to the script.

While nothing beats the original suits from the first two movies, I doubt anyone would have bothered with something like that ever again. What Henson did was amazing, the third movie less so, and Next Mutation even less. And DO NOT get me started on the horrifying abominations that sang Christmas carols. You could see light through their mouths! I'd say the suits are expensive, even the "you can see the eye holes under the masks" ones from The Next Mutation... the show wasn't cancelled due to low ratings, it was due to high cost. This wasn't exactly 20 year old Japanese footage Saban was playing with this time. But CGI is also very expensive, especially something along the lines of the last movie. Green Lantern didn't lose money because it had a low budget. I give them credit for having actors in suits to be CGI'd over in this one because at least they aren't the same old cheap(er) bouncy Yogi Bears or Jar Jar Binks you usually see.

That said, in all fairness, I hate the second film. Even with the new one, it's still my least favorite. The Henson built suits for the Turts and Tokka and Rahzar were amazing. The dumbing the script down for kiddies and inclusion of the BLAM with Vanilla Ice not so much. I tend to find the first TMNT movie one of the best comic book movies ever made, and especially in the 80's/90's when they weren't a thing and we came off of Howard the Duck among others. They found the right blend of comic series and cartoon, and were actually true to the comics (with characters switched around). The second one was a Casey Jones-less toy commercial and nothing more. Maybe I need another viewing, but I didn't like it last time I saw it, so...

Yes, that is true. As a lifelong Turtle fan, I saw the 2014 movie twice - the first time I was kind of in shock, the second time to just process what I was seeing a bit better, LOL! I agree with you that the mo-cap was well done, and obviously care was taken with the characters (even though I'm not a huge fan of the designs), and yeeeeah, the script left A LOT to be desired. I was pretty disappointed in that regard.

I liked the second film when I was a kid, but I hated that they changed the way the turtles looked and that they changed Donatello and Raphael's voices, and the actors for April and Shredder. But upon rewatching it as an adult, yeah, I can enjoy some things about it, but it's pretty hard to take the cartoonishness and dumbing down. And when I read that they hardly let the turtles use their weapons because parents complained, well, that is pretty irritating. Did they miss the NINJA part of the title? And I HATED the third movie. One of my saddest childhood memories is going to see it on my 12th birthday, and even as a kid I knew it was crap. I haven't watched it again since.

Anyway, you're right - what Henson did was amazing, but so labor intensive (and hard on the actors!) that it does seem unlikely that anyone will ever bother to do it again. Makes those movies even more of a treasure.

 

[Drtooth]

Yes, that is true. As a lifelong Turtle fan, I saw the 2014 movie twice - the first time I was kind of in shock, the second time to just process what I was seeing a bit better, LOL! I agree with you that the mo-cap was well done, and obviously care was taken with the characters (even though I'm not a huge fan of the designs), and yeeeeah, the script left A LOT to be desired. I was pretty disappointed in that regard.

The worst part is, it wasn't so much a bad movie, so much as it was a movie with a lot of potential that was wasted. The bits with the turtles were genuinely good, but the whole buildup with April and Eric Sacks was dull an uninspired. It felt like they had a movie about a contagion conspiracy and threw the turtles in it to pad the timing out. Except it wasn't, which made it worse. The worst thing I think they've done was listen to the complaints about how Shredder was a white guy now (even though the intention was to have Shredder as an inherited title), and include Oroku Saki Shredder into the film. In essence, Eric took the role of Oroku Saki and Baxter Stockman (his would be first appearance in film), shoving actual Saki Shredder into the background. You can tell by his fascination with the Mutated Turtles. That was totally a Baxter Stockman sequence. If they made the entire movie the same way and replaced Eric with Saki and Baxter, it would have been a much less disconnected film.

But I have to admit, it has seeds of being a genuinely good movie in there, and I hope the first film serves as the infodump for a much better sequel. Other than that, I'm the only one that genuinely enjoyed the look and detail on the Turtles. They seem to have a vibe of mixing all the different styles of the turtles from the comics, especially Michael Zuli's realistic turtles work.

I liked the second film when I was a kid, but I hated that they changed the way the turtles looked and that they changed Donatello and Raphael's voices, and the actors for April and Shredder. But upon rewatching it as an adult, yeah, I can enjoy some things about it, but it's pretty hard to take the cartoonishness and dumbing down. And when I read that they hardly let the turtles use their weapons because parents complained, well, that is pretty irritating. Did they miss the NINJA part of the title? And I HATED the third movie. One of my saddest childhood memories is going to see it on my 12th birthday, and even as a kid I knew it was crap. I haven't watched it again since.

Yeah. on the one hand, I can see why they turned the second film more into the cartoon series, and I can see why they had to bow down to whining parental groups. On the other hand, a lot of the damage they did themselves. I get the whole excuse that they couldn't have it be a TCRI container and they didn't want to reveal the scientist was actually and Utrom, because kids would have been confused into thinking it was Krang. But the Shredder revenge plot wasted potential for any other TMNT villains to appear, and the ending with Mutated Super Shredder was too Disney to take serious or enjoy. Cuz that's what happens to most Disney villains, they get bigger somehow, to the point where Emperor's New Groove parodies it.

But the childish dumbing down was disappointing (retroactively anyway) considering how unapologetic in darkness the first movie was. They found the right mix of comic and cartoon, and it's one of the most accurate comic book movies out there. Remember... this is when Batman's film at the time said that Bruce's parents were killed by soon to be The Joker for the sake of the film, rather than Joe Chill in the comic lore. As for the third, while I don't regard it as a great movie, I find it closer to the comics than the second one. Almost a Tales of the TMNT type movie (like the fourth one was). Plus, it was great to see Casey back instead of the generic ninja kid from the last film. Too bad the reason they traveled through time wasn't because of Rennet. That seems like a lost opportunity.

 

[Nasubionna]

The worst part is, it wasn't so much a bad movie, so much as it was a movie with a lot of potential that was wasted. The bits with the turtles were genuinely good, but the whole buildup with April and Eric Sacks was dull an uninspired. It felt like they had a movie about a contagion conspiracy and threw the turtles in it to pad the timing out. Except it wasn't, which made it worse. The worst thing I think they've done was listen to the complaints about how Shredder was a white guy now (even though the intention was to have Shredder as an inherited title), and include Oroku Saki Shredder into the film. In essence, Eric took the role of Oroku Saki and Baxter Stockman (his would be first appearance in film), shoving actual Saki Shredder into the background. You can tell by his fascination with the Mutated Turtles. That was totally a Baxter Stockman sequence. If they made the entire movie the same way and replaced Eric with Saki and Baxter, it would have been a much less disconnected film.

But I have to admit, it has seeds of being a genuinely good movie in there, and I hope the first film serves as the infodump for a much better sequel. Other than that, I'm the only one that genuinely enjoyed the look and detail on the Turtles. They seem to have a vibe of mixing all the different styles of the turtles from the comics, especially Michael Zuli's realistic turtles work.



Yeah. on the one hand, I can see why they turned the second film more into the cartoon series, and I can see why they had to bow down to whining parental groups. On the other hand, a lot of the damage they did themselves. I get the whole excuse that they couldn't have it be a TCRI container and they didn't want to reveal the scientist was actually and Utrom, because kids would have been confused into thinking it was Krang. But the Shredder revenge plot wasted potential for any other TMNT villains to appear, and the ending with Mutated Super Shredder was too Disney to take serious or enjoy. Cuz that's what happens to most Disney villains, they get bigger somehow, to the point where Emperor's New Groove parodies it.

But the childish dumbing down was disappointing (retroactively anyway) considering how unapologetic in darkness the first movie was. They found the right mix of comic and cartoon, and it's one of the most accurate comic book movies out there. Remember... this is when Batman's film at the time said that Bruce's parents were killed by soon to be The Joker for the sake of the film, rather than Joe Chill in the comic lore. As for the third, while I don't regard it as a great movie, I find it closer to the comics than the second one. Almost a Tales of the TMNT type movie (like the fourth one was). Plus, it was great to see Casey back instead of the generic ninja kid from the last film. Too bad the reason they traveled through time wasn't because of Rennet. That seems like a lost opportunity.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said here!

 

[SpookyMania]

I just watched the movie for the first time today since I was about four or five. I agree, the Creature Shop's work was fantastic, as well as the performers'. Great job all around.

 

[Scooch]

Thank you guys. The first one was tough going but worth it in the end.