Snoop Doggy Dog (The Degenerate)

[CaptCrouton]

Grail,

We are coming from different world views when it comes to substance abuse and issues. While this discussion probably warrants another thread, let me try to keep it on the subject.

All drugs, including legal ones like alchohol and cigarettes destroy lives. I don't think they should be glamorized. I have at least one friend who's pot addiction killed him, and many more who died of lung cancer from cigs, drunk driving, etc.

Another interesting study is how prohibition could've worked and the sharp decline in crime as a result. But of course, you can find a study to support whatever you want. Especially if you're a pot head.

As far as prostitution is concerned, I know it's just another case of the cheapening of intimacy. I don't know what the LDS (Mormon) church teaches, but Biblically, we believe that sex is more than just the exchange of bodily fluids. It is the most intimate form of fellowship that is only to be reserved for the safety of a marital relationship. When you mess with sex, even beyond all the STD's that are spread, you're messing with people's souls, their minds, and emotions.

I know all the missiles are locked on my target now. But I really live the things I believe. I am waiting for my wife because I think it's the most incredible wedding gift you can give the one person you'll spend the rest of your life with. Because you can only give your purity to one person, and I want my honeymoon to be more than just our first family vacation. So prostitution, from my perspective, is a joke.

But back to Snoop and the Muppets, neither the glamorization of drugs or prostitution is suitable on the show. Maybe we should just save this for another thread.

 

[Cantus]

To Patty. E

Just because YOU feel as though Snoop Dog is some sort of evil presence, doesnt mean that the rest of us have to miss out on what could have been a brilliant cameo. Snoop Dog himself said it was awesome to work with the muppets, and now because of you, they've removed him from the film altogether. You should have at least put forward a petition! Nobody should be allowed to speak on behalf of anyone unless it's documented officially. And what was this informercial/cameo garbage?! I suppose then that Michael Caine, who has also led a life of sex, drugs and alcohol abuse, is out on some infomercial or cheap promotion for his next film then? Or how about Matthew Lillard, I suppose he's just there to promote his films like SLC Punk, 13 Ghosts or even Scream for that matter? Where were you when they decided to put Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolow in Muppets from Space (no offense to Rob Shneider, it's just a matter of principal)?
Cameo's are not promotional matterial, that's what ads are for. Take a good hard look at everyone who's cameo'd in a muppet movie, or been on a muppet show and then reassess what you've done. If Snoop Dog stood for violence and all that, then why isn't he locked up for life? Why, I'll tell you why, because his music is aimed at a market. And not all his stuff is about disrespect, sex, drugs and violence, take a look at his song for Undercover Brother for example. And so what if he decides to direct a porno? You don't need to tell your kids that, and it's not as though they're gonna go immediately after seeing someone in a muppet movie they PROBABLY WON'T RECOGNISE, look him up on the internet and go "Oh my goodness he made a porn movie!...What's a porn movie mom?" Cameo's are not brainwashing material, they are there for the audience. The only person here being brainwashed by anything is you.
Jeez, I used to watch muppet movies all the time and sure i'd seen some people before in other movies, but most of the time i was completely oblivious to who the actor was, and i think you'll find that most kids will still be the same. And as everyone else here has pointed out, the muppet show was the older brother of the sesame street gang. Aimed at a more MATURE and UNDERSTANDING audience. The pilot episode was entitled SEX & VIOLENCE for crying out loud!
It's people like you who rob kids of what they cherish on TV during their childhood years. My favourite show growing up was The Real Ghostbusters, and it was axed, because parents were complaining about what THEY saw. It was axed because apparently it was too violent. It's Ghostbusters, where is the violence? Batman, Spiderman, TMNT, Ren and Stimpy (suffering as the muppets did) Rocko's Modern Life, Invader Zim (both suffering as being labelled as kids shows) were all axed because ADULTS complained about the violence. If you don't want your kid watching it, dont let them, but dont let other kids suffer too.
If there was one thing I learnt from Jim Henson and everyone at the JHC, it was to accept everyone, no matter what their creed, race, religion, background, gender...WHATEVER...and if you truly supported the JHC and Jim Henson and his colleagues, you would think likewise and have faith in what they're doing. You need to sit down and watch some Fraggle Rock and open your ears, your eyes and more importantly your mind, because what you've said and done certainly doesn't seem like something a true supporter of the Jim Henson dream would do.

 

[tomahawk]

the thing is capt. crouton, your direct quote was, "i don't think henson or kermit want to be associated with a guy who promotes..etc.etc.
first off, he was put in the film in the first place and for some reason, whether it was really production costs(wink, wink,nudge, nudge) or our ever so thougtful, looking out for other peoples best interest watchdog groups decided they couldn't find a heavy-metal band that seduced a young mind into commiting suicide, so they decided to pull themselves away from cbn and start some trouble with henson and snoop.
the only reason i said what i said was the henson organization has always performed with people who were on the edge, regardless of public opinion. i'm not attacking anyone for thier beliefs on this, i'm attacking groups and individuals who think it's thier calling in life to CHOOSE what is good for everyone. i have a one and a half year old daughter, i would have sat and watched the christmas special withsnoop dog with her watching. she wouldn't have known the difference. just like alot of kids even older. see its the parents job to teach and nurture and explain all of these things to thier own child, not some crazy power hungery mob.

 

[Stryder Wolfe]

jsut a couple of thoughts:

Dogma's a great movie - everyone should see it and if they can't laugh at it, and take away something as well, then they oughta reevaluate how seriously they're taking life, IMO...

oh, Scarborough Fair is a traditional song dating back a LOT longer than the 60's...the only possible marijuana reference in it is the backing vocals that Garfunkel does on the original recording, and even that is doubtful, but in any case that's moot as those backing vocals were not included in the muppet episode in question.

Although, if you think that henson and company weren't at least occasionally getting high in 60's and 70's you're being naive. (again, IMO, I have no proof of same and no motivation to gather any). I would bet that 95% of the guests and probably the performers as well at least occasionally did some ellicit drugs...

then again, I think pretty much 85-90% of the population of North America does, too, so what do I know?

hehe..I see my earlier biblical post did nothing to point out the ridiculousness of censorship, as no one seems to have acknowledged what I was oh-so-subtley trying to get at, that ANYTHING can be justified as being censored if you take it too far...

now then, after all that, I happen to beleive that time constraints and a possibly lousy performance/scene was more responsible for snoop ending up being cut than any lobbying...scenes and cameos get cut form movies all the time...it's standard procedure due to time constraints, reworked scripts, etc...there's no reason to think that this is any different....

basically, bottom line is, there's a mountain being made here...and it's made out of spilt milk! (see that's me trying to be funny )

 

[Phillip]

Please, let's try not to direct all the pro-Snoop hostility against Patty. I've received a lot of e-mails the past few weeks about Snoop's appearance from a variety of people. If you want to talk about why you like it that he's not in the special or why you're disappointed those scenes were cut that's great, however Patty did not make those decisions. Inevitably it was Henson's decision to cut the footage just like they played a part with NBC in choosing the scenes in the first place.

 

[Drtooth]

Originally posted by Phillip Chapman
If you want to talk about why you like it that he's not in the special or why you're disappointed those scenes were cut that's great, however Patty did not make those decisions. Inevitably it was Henson's decision to cut the footage just like they played a part with NBC in choosing the scenes in the first place.

Chapman has a point. I was discussing this with Frogboy4 last night, and I told him that I complained about Pat E. to put a face on my discuss, and the fact that she's the only one on board who sent a complaint letter.

Again, yes. It was Henson's decision (if a DVD comes out we may be Lucky enough to have it included as a bonus, or at least an Easter Egg). Though I wouldn't be surprised if the angry letters fueled this judgement.

I appologize (again) for my actions, and I bet these guys appologize for theirs.

 

[CaptCrouton]

I stand by my statement. Whatever it was that caused them to change their mind, it was their decision. I don't know. Maybe they threw out the Snoop footage because he couldn't say a line without a profanity and they got tired of cutting and pasting all his clips together. Do you have any record of all of what groups contacted Henson? The only one I know who sent a letter was Patty.

So go ahead and express your love for Snoop to the powers that be. You can protest, just like they did for Farscape.

I disagree that Henson did whatever they did without public opinion. You can't do entertainment without public opinion. How do they rate "The Best of the Muppet Show?" Why do they decide what was the best? Public Opinion! How do they determine what Palisades figures to release, or even if they'll release more? Public Opinion! Please reread my previous posts about the nature of entertainment. What part do you disagree with? Henson and Co. would be fools not to pay attention to some form public opinion.

But again, maybe the director of the film looked and said, "This guy's an idiot. I don't have to put up with this. He's not in the film." Look at the post before me and see how much has been blamed on Watchdog Groups. Did it ever occur that some shows and performances are cancelled because they suck?

Somebody please cite the references or evidences that some Watchdog Group forced Henson's hand, please. This thread is so wearying...

 

[CaptCrouton]

oh, whoops. A couple of posts showed up while i was typing. I'm not referring to those.

 

[tomahawk]

Originally posted by Phillip Chapman
Please, let's try not to direct all the pro-Snoop hostility against Patty. I've received a lot of e-mails the past few weeks about Snoop's appearance from a variety of people. If you want to talk about why you like it that he's not in the special or why you're disappointed those scenes were cut that's great, however Patty did not make those decisions. Inevitably it was Henson's decision to cut the footage just like they played a part with NBC in choosing the scenes in the first place.

no phillip, she may not have single-handedly got snoop off the special, but i dare anyone to find another post she has made in muppet central. be it in action figures, in merchandise or even maybe a hi how are you all doing. i don't believe there is one. she came in here with an agenda. she didn't come in here because she is a muppet fan. maybe if she answered some of all of our questions we would all have a better understanding of where she is coming from. but if she continues to spout out the same exact drivel taken out of the how control what other people are watching book than i for one will not let up. no matter how long and tedious this thread gets. i don't think anyone should back down on what they stand for.
respectfully,james hemstead

 

[MahnaMahna]

I'd just like to add my 2 cents worth on Muppet cameos in general.

I hate the idea of all the cameos in this upcoming film. I hated the cameos in Muppets From Space. I loved the cameos in The Muppet Movie, The Great Muppet Caper and the Muppets Take Manhattan.

Why?

In Muppets From Space Hulk Hogan played Hulk Hogan. The Dawson's Creek "teens" played the Dawson's Creek teens. How stupid is that?

In the Muppet Movie, Bob Hope played the ice cream man. Milton Berle played the car salesman, Steve Martin was the waiter, etc.....

So, whether it's Snoop or Mr. Rogers, I don't care to see it! However, if they show Snoop as a bus driver or as expensive restaurant customer #3, then I would think it's funny.

Mark