Should Walter be a main character in place of Rowlf and Scooter?

[CensoredAlso]

And let's face it. Baby Bear totally would have been a Richard Hunt character.

Similar voices yes, but Baby Bear doesn't feel like Hunt's type of character. Well, depends on the year we're talking about I suppose. At some point, all the SS characters caught the Elmo Sydrome and we all know how Hunt felt about him, lol.

 

[Muppet Master]

(facepalm)

Seriously? You get that it was supposed to be a joke, right? It's supposed to be completely idiotic and illogical because it's making fun of that stupid cliche. The movie was full of winks and nods. In fact, I've seen that sort of thing done even more idiot ball-y. Remember the Powerpuff Girls where three huge muscular guys were in bad PPG costumes and beat the crap out of the Mayor, and even he didn't know the... no... even the PPG themselves didn't know the difference at some point. Parody of a bad cliche, just like here. If they knew it was Constantine, the movie would be like, five minutes long. Questioning the logic of that is like questioning the logic of making the same exact space station with the same exact flaw in it that causes it to explode violently when someone shoots something into it.

That sort of thing reminds me of the King of Queens episode where Arthur didn't enjoy a movie because the entire plot of the movie could have been resolved by having them call ahead. Plot happens at the risk of logic.

Plus, quite honestly, nothing's more mean spirited than the time they turned Piggy into a dominatrix singing about how gruesomely she's going to kill someone. Yeah, I Muppet Godwin's Lawed this son of a gun and mentioned MWOO. That film was far more disgusting than the characters being stupid/selfish.



Exactly my point. Scooter and Rowlf were pulled essentially out of thin air to add the obligatory nostalgia complaint. Both characters just came back and have been more prominent in recent years. I don't see why now there's a complaint about them when they've actually appeared. Remember in MFS when Rowlf grunted and Scooter had one line about t-shirts and how incredibly amazing that was? The fact of the matter is, it took until VMX to really get the classic characters back and we've lost more newer characters than older ones.

Dude, we all need to reaize that the writers are not like that, they do not know the muppets, if they did know then why is Fozzie an idiot, this is one of the most annoying things in muppet history, making Fozzie an idiot. Where did this idea even come up, what TMS episode showed him being that stupid, sure he didn't know how ventriliquism worked, but that was a puppet joke, not that he was stupid, starting with MTI, tons of writers think that Fozzie is an idiot, all I remember is he was a struggling comedian, seriously. If the writers knew the muppets, the muppets wouldn't totally be stupid, a cold, really, come on are the muppets like four years old or something, and having Rowlf just say random dumb lines here and there besides the Godfather stuff is an insult to his character, though for whatever reason, most of the characters were more in character in TM then this film.

 

[Iscah]

why is Fozzie an idiot, this is one of the most annoying things in muppet history, making Fozzie an idiot. Where did this idea even come up, what TMS episode showed him being that stupid, sure he didn't know how ventriliquism worked, but that was a puppet joke, not that he was stupid, starting with MTI, tons of writers think that Fozzie is an idiot, all I remember is he was a struggling comedian, seriously.

It really disappoints me that Fozzie has been reduced to stupid remarks and toilet humour (seriously, WHY). The problem is, he is clueless, but in a different way - he doesn't understand things, like that a ventriloquist dummy doesn't have a life of its own, or that "X does something funny" is not useful scriptwriting. He wants to be liked and be helpful to others, and tries so hard, but can end up being unhelpful because he doesn't quite "get it". And I think, to some writers, that has simply come across as "he does stupid things".

 

[Ladywarrior]

Poor Fozzy. I always thought he was more naive than stupid.

 

[Iscah]

Ah, yes! Naive is the word I was looking for!

 

[minor muppetz]

Dude, we all need to reaize that the writers are not like that, they do not know the muppets, if they did know then why is Fozzie an idiot, this is one of the most annoying things in muppet history, making Fozzie an idiot.

The writers do know the characters. Many of the same writers have been writing for the Muppets for years, and the writers from the last two movies are big fans (though they seem to associate the Muppets as a product of the 1980s, and there was an interview with one of the writers who seemed to think Fozzie is stupid). Fozzie didn't start to become dumb until Muppet Treasure Island, maybe Muppet Classic Theater - and Jerry Juhl was one of the writers for MTI, though with MCT and MTI you can say that Fozzie was just playing a stupid character (and again, I'm not entirely sure if Fozzie's role as the emperor was a stupid character or not). Of course, during the 1990s, Fozzie often appeared to be a lot stupider than before, but most of his appearance were as roles. Even on Muppets Tonight, Fozzie was usually seen as an on-screen character, only appearing backstage twice. Muppets from Space is probably the only '90s production where the "he's playing a stupid role" excuse for his stupidity doesn't apply.

It seems like Fozzie's sudden lack of intelligence as seen throughout the 1990s ended with It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, and then it seems like some of it it came back in Muppets Most Wanted.

 

[Gonzo14]

If I may jump into this conversation, I think that Walter's prominence should depend on what kind of production is being produced.

If there was to be another TV Show (and I know this is not likely), then I think that Walter could become a major character without diminishing the roles of others. With a new episode week after week, there are plenty of opportunities to showcase multiple Muppets. Each episode could have a handful of Muppets that are featured more heavily, and they all kind of take turns. This is what happened in The Muppet Show. There were some episodes without major characters like Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo, etc. Even Kermit was reduced to a cameo appearance in the Nancy Walker episode, but the show as a whole doesn't feel like anyone was stepping on anyone else's toes.

If it were a movie or a TV Special, which is more likely, then I'd say Walter probably shouldn't be front and center. When there's only an hour and a half to two hours for the story, and we have so many Muppets that fans want to see, it can be difficult having Walter in a main role. Even when I was writing my fanfic, I started out with Walter joining the main action throughout the story, but I found that I didn't really have much for him to do, so I changed it up and gave him a small moment in one of the chapters. This seemed to work well. I don't want to see Walter disappearing forever, but I don't see him rising through the ranks that quickly.

 

[Beakerfan]

I think perhaps the change in Fozzie's humor/personality has been influenced by the change in the type of comedy the world currently finds popular. Many comedies these days are less intelligent and rely more on stupid or crude humor. Therefore, in order to draw an audience, stupidity becomes the "go-to" for characters like Fozzie. I'm not saying that's what *we* expect or desire, but that seems to be what the general population desires, especially among kids.

 

[Muppet Master]

Oh yes fozzy's dreaded "fart shoes".

I'm fine with that little stupidity, but what he did in MMW turned him into a dumb character, tough he was not really that stupid in MFS though more naive, still not bad, the way he was in VMX was great, and peolpe do not like that, seriously that movie captured what made the muppets themselves with physical comedy, great references, the characters in character, and sprinkles of adult humor throughout which made it really good, these writers must have seen like maybe three TMS episodes, and like just MTI, and MCC, really guys try better.

 

[Ladywarrior]

i thought the shoes were silly but they did amuse me. XD yes he was real dumb in MMW. Poor fozzy.