Sesame Workshop Trying To Have It Both Ways(Bert/Ernie issue)

[beaker]

Just to make clear- I don't like when people decide what is and isn't God's judgment. All I can say on natural disasters and disease, etc. is that it happens to everyone and it is the result of the fallen world we live in. I do believe God passes out judgment but He also extends grace and mercy. I personally find it pretty horrible to almost gleefully look at the death of Michael Jeter and Richard Hunt and act like they got the punishment they deserve for being gay. It is sad when anyone dies and I only hope they had true peace with God through Christ- but I certainly don't take pleasure in anyone's death and I don't think Christians or anyone else should. (As God says in Ezekiel 18:23 " 'Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked?' declares the Sovereign Lord. 'Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?' " Note that this verse is in the context of the Old Testament when the only way of following God was through obedience to The Law. In the New Testament, we have the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ to fulfill the requirements of The Law- which sets us free from its penalty for breaking it, but also sets us free to truly live in Christ and obey Him out of love and gratitude.)

Right, but I was referring to nutjobs like the late Falwell and West Boro Church. The types that think they had the power of God to cast deathly judgement. I think it was both WBC and Falwell, perhaps even Pat Robertson who said 9/11 was God's punishment for America allowing same sex marriage and abortion. Now Im know fan of abortion, but even if I believed a gay lifestyle was bad just the enormity of those sort of statements is perplexing. But I hate to even bring up these examples, as it's so far out of mainline Western Christianity. I would even say it's unfair for people to keep citing these fringe elements masquerading as so called Christians in order to lay a libel against Christianity. It's the same as people condemning other religions for the words and deeds of a few.

 

[beaker]

Two quick things here. One, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses may call themselves Christians, but I would call them cults as they add to God's Word and alter it and do not believe fully in the deity of Jesus Christ. (or at all.) Not saying anyone did, but I would ask that people be careful about lumping all those who claim the name of Christ together- the same as we should with Muslims, Hindus and any other religion or group of people, etc.
Also, and I'm not denying this but curious, what countries have hunted down, imprisoned and killed homosexuals? I have heard of Uganda passing very stringent laws regarding this but I am not sure of any other African nations beyond that and no Carribean nations. Of course, it is kind of unfair to call any country truly "Christian"- of course, I wish everyone in the world knew Christ as Savior, but we can't really say an entire country is necessarily Christian or any other religion. People must be free to choose what they will believe about God.

I was raised Jehovah's Witness unfortunately, they call themselves Christians but hate all other Christians and believe anything other than JW teachings is apostasy. The funny part is they don't see Christ as playing any sort of central role to anything, yet they still maintain the Christian tag. With LDS, as explained to me from people who used to be devout, they genuinely believe that Christ had/has sexual relations as per some sort of divine covenant on other planets and that faithful LDS members can hope to join in this celestial tradition. It's so far outside mainline Western Christianity, it boggles the mind. But I mean, people are free to believe what they want.

Yes, in Uganda, Senegal, Nigeria, Jamaica, Ghana and other black countries it's not only illegal to be gay(even non sexual) but it's often encouraged to hunt down and attack gay and lesbian people. In Jamaica, it's almost become part of pop culture as big time reggae singers and politicians on tv explicitly talk about how they believe gays are subhumans who should be hunted down. In Muslim countries like Iran, they just straight up hang gays and use Islamic law. In Egypt they raid gay meetups and throw people in jail for long periods of time. Saudi Arabia of course has some of the most oppressive anti gay laws in the Muslim world. Israel tho, is rather progressive in gay rights thankfully as well as woman rights. But pretty much, if you're a woman or gay it's not the best situation to be in some of these countries.

 

[CensoredAlso]

My only point is the bible contradicts itself. I'm not a literal believer of the bible

Neither am I. But that's not a contradiction. Obviously when judgment is mentioned they're talking about moral issues.

 

[beaker]

For the record, as a Christian, I do support anti-bullying efforts. Certainly no one should be bullied for any reason. I definitely don't want to see kids feel and/or get harassed, be alienated, get beat up and attempt suicide and possibly even succeed in that effort. That is incredibly sad to see. And that is definitely wrong- just as wrong as homosexuality and any other sin. Of course, I would tell people it gets eternally better with Jesus because He loves you as you are and He died on the cross to pay for every sin ever committed, or being committed or will be committed. And He rose again to prove He's God. And when we trust Him as Savior, we are rescued from a descent into Hades and instead have an eternal home with Him in Heaven.
As I said earlier, temptation comes to everyone and we all deal with it on some level. But Christ's grace is sufficient for us even in our weakness.

Right...but I must ask, as I do of all Christians I converse with who believe homosexuality is a sin... is it the sexual aspect that gets the spotlight? There's a lot of things written as scripture both new and old testament I recall that noone in the modern world would even bother adhering too. See I get the sleeping around thing.
A lot of people have this idea that gay people are meeting up at parties and hooking up, and living a very hedonistic permiscuous lifestyle. That would bug me too, as it does when I hear about it in the straight world. I think many people would agree that a life style of sleeping around is bad regardless if one lives life according to scripture or not.

But I often think...would a loving God truly consider two longterm for life gay or lesbian people as sinners? There's so many mundane, boring, deeply faithful and good gay men and lesbian women who seem like they would be considered exemplary in a gameplan God would want. What sin are they committing, other than petty squabbles and the usual couply things? Meanwhile America's divorce rate is over 50% with straight couples.

Also what sort of sin are we talking here? I don't believe in sin, other than the bad karma people create by doing harm to others. But if one believes in sin, I wonder where this "homosexual lifestyle"(ie: faithful committed gay couple) is placed.

Leviticus also says owning slaves is ok, but certain meats are bad to eat. It also says
sexual relations with your wife around "that time" is punishable from being cut off from family. Also if I remember something about mixing seeds during a crop and mixing different fabrics together.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

Neither am I. But that's not a contradiction. Obviously when judgment is mentioned they're talking about moral issues.

Hmm...I appear to have accidentally deleted part of the post before that one, hence my contradiction comment (in reference to a non existent comment I thought I posted). Meh...it wasnt important and would have probably taken the wrong way anyway

 

[CensoredAlso]

A lot of people have this idea that gay people are meeting up at parties and hooking up, and living a very hedonistic permiscuous lifestyle. That would bug me too,

For some people it's not even really about that I think. It's simply just that they've been taught that this is what the Bible says and they don't question it. The Bible doesn't even really explain why homosexuality is wrong. But the attitude is if the Bible says it, end of story.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Hmm...I appear to have accidentally deleted part of the post before that one, hence my contradiction comment (in reference to a non existent comment I thought I posted). Meh...it wasnt important and would have probably taken the wrong way anyway

No worries, sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

Nah, no misunderstanding, just my computer's oversensitive touch pad. Its always highlighting stuff which I proceed to type over without realizing it. Once I deleted an entire page of a paper from doing that

 

[CensoredAlso]

Nah, no misunderstanding, just my computer's oversensitive touch pad. Its always highlighting stuff which I proceed to type over without realizing it. Once I deleted an entire page of a paper from doing that

Oooo, that's annoying.

 

[beaker]

For some people it's not even really about that I think. It's simply just that they've been taught that this is what the Bible says and they don't question it. The Bible doesn't even really explain why homosexuality is wrong. But the attitude is if the Bible says it, end of story.

I just wonder what moral, spiritual or social harm is done between two loving faithful gay or lesbian couples. I mean I get the views on drugs, heavy drinking, s&m, swinging, etc. While Im sure a portion of the gay male population is out there looking for random hookups or casual dating, an even bigger portion of the straight male population engages in that sort of dangerous behavior.

The issue I see, really the only issue is when one's religious beliefs leak out of the home or church and into the day to day lives and rights of other people. Like when the LDS stepped out of Utah and into California and spent 29 million dollars to ban gay marriage, using all sorts of trickster scare tactics and such. Or as stated when countries have unforgiving anti gay laws because of their beliefs. Otherwise I wouldn't even care, as I believe all people have the right to practice and believe whatever they want.