Rumor: Big Bird only in four Season 41 episodes

[Convincing John]

How many episodes can one have focused on cleaning and bathtime!

They sure did it a lot in the old days. Check this link out from Tough Pigs:

http://www.toughpigs.com/anthschool08.htm

And I quote: "Washing was a huge deal in the early days of Sesame Street; there must have been a ton of stinky kids back then." LOL!

So Joey won't write more for Big bird, huh? That's sad if it's true. Between Mazzarino and Clash, Sesame Street will morph into half Elmo's World and half Horatio the Elephant and Murray Monster sketches. (shudder).

Does anyone know if the Old School sets sold well enough that Sesame Workshop would consider releasing more...or at least air them?

I think that even though Elmo brings in a lot of money for the show (which is what keeps it rolling along) there has got to be a market for parents who want to show their kids what Sesame Street is more than just Elmo.

Sesame Street was the "go to" show for kids way back when, with little to no competition. Now, the show has to compete with all kinds of other kids shows which are absolute garbage...copying their formats, talking down to kids instead of to them and erasing the wit and "hip"-ness brought to life by any given Muppeteer (Oz comes to mind).

Let's not forget what Frank Oz said:

"It's just become a kids show, instead of a hip show. I've told them that, so many times - there's nothing I can do. I've given a master class in that stuff, but they don't get it. They're very nice people, and there are some really gifted people there. But the show was begun by people who were actually performers and actors.

The business now, it's mainly about people who are more executive, and people who come from television, and there's a difference, I think. I don't often watch the show, but I did a little bit, to see how it's going, and it's become a little kiddie show, and it's very sad. It was never like that with Jim and I, and everyone else back then."

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am extremely curious to find the text of the lecture Jon Stone gave in Oneonta, New York. (It's mentioned in Street Gang, p. 329). What's in his unpublished memoirs? I'd certainly like to know.

But if you read further into Street Gang, you'll see what happened to him for giving his opinion. I'm sure that there are other long-time employees of SW who feel the same (and would say so if given the chance), but don't want to wind up fired or in Stone's case, banned from the set.

We can give our opinions about the show here because we are fans. We don't work for Sesame Workshop. Frank Oz was able to say what he said before because that interview is pretty recent (2007, when Frank had semi-retired from Muppeteering altogether) and well, he's Frank Oz. He could get away with that.

One does not work for Disney and speak ill of the mouse. Although I can't be certain, after reading about what happened with Stone, I can't help but think the same principle applies here.

If Vogel is taking over Jerry Nelson's characters as well as Big Bird, this could be one reason why the bird isn't getting airtime.

Is it possible...before Jerry retires completely that he can train someone else to help out? With Disney needing the main Muppeteers, it would be wise to have extra, well-trained Muppeteers for Sesame Street when needed. That way, we can have more classic characters on the street and folks like Steve and Eric can come by (when Disney doesn't need them) and film Ernie and Bert segments...or Grover stuff, or even another Kermit segment. I don't know who said it, but they're right. This season of Sesame Street looked like a ghost town. More characters should be on the street. More kids, more of the adult cast, just to make it more alive.

To edge out the bird completely is extremely foolish. He means too much to too many people. If they ever did that, I can't imagine the volume of negative fan mail they are going to get.

Convincing John

 

[Oscarfan]

In the ToughPigs interview with Joey, he states he has a hard time writing for Big Bird. Plus, it's this new format. It limits everyone but Elmo, Abby and Murray (and to a lesser extent, Ernie and Bert, who appeared in a handful of segments this season).

 

[Drtooth]

So Joey won't write more for Big bird, huh? That's sad if it's true. Between Mazzarino and Clash, Sesame Street will morph into half Elmo's World and half Horatio the Elephant and Murray Monster sketches. (shudder).

It's not that Joey won't write... he just hasn't found his voice with the character. And we lose a LOT of Muppets because people just don't know how to write for them. Face it, the Bird is very complex, just like Kermit,. And the worst part is, the complexity is very subtle. Telly has a big personality, Oscar does too... character's with huge loud personalities are easier to write for because they have many examples of how to deal with a situation. It's a writing problem and I can't really blame anybody for it.

Sesame Street was the "go to" show for kids way back when, with little to no competition. Now, the show has to compete with all kinds of other kids shows which are absolute garbage...copying their formats, talking down to kids instead of to them and erasing the wit and "hip"-ness brought to life by any given Muppeteer (Oz comes to mind).

That's another problem, and the Frank Oz quote really fleshes it out. There's so much garbage that's similar. Everything has to pretend to be interactive, and I find it complete bull. Things are luckily changing... and at LEAST we don't have the mortifying "Time to Play" segments that dumbed the show down lower than anyone would have seen them go. That was a very dark season for them. Even worse than the first season of Journey to Ernie.|

I have nothing but problems with this season's format. I LOVE Murray, and Jim would have LOVED seeing a character and a segment like that take a muppet out into the real world and meeting kids and getting messy... i.e. being real. But There's no call to disguise a 50 minute TV show as a block of disconnected programs, like it was Nick Jr. Especially since Nick Jr is decades old by now. The letter and number intros I actually quite liked, but introducing the segments and playing games seemed to fall flat.

Is it possible...before Jerry retires completely that he can train someone else to help out? With Disney needing the main Muppeteers, it would be wise to have extra, well-trained Muppeteers for Sesame Street when needed. That way, we can have more classic characters on the street and folks like Steve and Eric can come by (when Disney doesn't need them) and film Ernie and Bert segments...or Grover stuff, or even another Kermit segment. I don't know who said it, but they're right. This season of Sesame Street looked like a ghost town. More characters should be on the street. More kids, more of the adult cast, just to make it more alive.

2 things...

The deserted feeling is ALL about their budget crisis. less money for small extras, less money for Puppeteers... they had to let so many people go. And we can all blame certain things for it, but I don't want to get into that. If it was some bad British CSI knockoff, PBS would have tossed a crapload of money at it so BBC America didn't suck it up. Let's just say that. That and Frag it! I Want Mr. Bean and Monty Python back. These new British shows and ones about boring old couples suck.

Secondly... egad. What's gonna happen if Disney needs Steve, Eric, David, and Matt for movies, TV specials or even just virals or public appearances? We're gonna see a LOT less Grover, Ernie, Bert, Cookie, Baby Bear, and Count VonCount, aren't we? I'm sure Kevin is WAAAAY too Busy to want to come back and be Clifford, though (shame, since I always thought it was one of his better if not best characters). I'm sure Frank would do a couple Grover and Cookie segments... but we'd see a real lack of Ernie. outside of the claymation and older skits, I don't think Ernie has been around THIS season.

 

[Convincing John]

It's not that Joey won't write... he just hasn't found his voice with the character. And we lose a LOT of Muppets because people just don't know how to write for them. Face it, the Bird is very complex, just like Kermit,. And the worst part is, the complexity is very subtle. Telly has a big personality, Oscar does too... character's with huge loud personalities are easier to write for because they have many examples of how to deal with a situation. It's a writing problem and I can't really blame anybody for it.

That's right, Big Bird is very complex. Still, with the character as important to the show as Big Bird, you'd think Joey and a few other key writers could study Big Bird, put their heads together and come up with some different stuff. The "Wing in a Sling" story worked very well and I wish there were more stories like that coming up.

Can Caroll sit in on the writing sessions? It would be simple for Joey to ask Caroll "Well, we need help writing for Big Bird. Since you're the bird, can you help us out by answering some questions and giving your insights?" Sesame Street encourages asking questions asking for help and cooperation. It'd work behind the scenes, too. If Caroll is unavailable, Sonia Manzano used to write for the show. Her experience with both writing and doing all those scenes and shows with Big Bird oughta help out, too. Joey could ask her too, right?

There's no call to disguise a 50 minute TV show as a block of disconnected programs, like it was Nick Jr. Especially since Nick Jr is decades old by now. The letter and number intros I actually quite liked, but introducing the segments and playing games seemed to fall flat.

I don't get that either. The "magazine" format still worked, even with Elmo's World, right? Abby's Flying Fairy School, Murray Has A Little Lamb and B&E Great Adventures, effective and educational as they are, take up a lot of time. There's barely any time for the letter and number inserts. Rather than repeated clips throughout the episode, we get what...one or two brief clips? Then it's on to 10 minutes of trying to wake up Blogg or what happens at "farm school", then Elmo talks about hats for 15 minutes.

What happened to learning how to read from Sesame Street? I'm not saying ditch the other segments altogether, but they only have an hour for the show...not even that now with all the sponsor information. If Elmo's World (or another segment) wove in the basic letters and numbers it would be even more effective and educational. Murray does the "What's on me that starts with (insert letter) " or the "Bring out your (insert letter)". Why not do something similar with Elmo's World instead of wasting time asking if a birthday cake can jump or "let's ask a baby"?

Murray interacts with kids in the real world, but to point out something in the clip that matches the letter or number of the day would make it even better. "C" for carrot, or "Hey look, 2 tractors! One...two!"

2 things...

The deserted feeling is ALL about their budget crisis. less money for small extras, less money for Puppeteers... they had to let so many people go. And we can all blame certain things for it, but I don't want to get into that. If it was some bad British CSI knockoff, PBS would have tossed a crapload of money at it so BBC America didn't suck it up. Let's just say that. That and Frag it! I Want Mr. Bean and Monty Python back. These new British shows and ones about boring old couples suck.

Of ALL the shows to fund...why doesn't PBS put more money towards Sesame Street? I say cancel that embarrassing, degrading mess called "Super Why" (or make that horrible, purple dinosaur go extinct!) and put that money towards Sesame Street...a show with quality! There's not a single one of us here who would say "I'd like to see more Super Why! Who cares about more characters on Sesame Street?" Someone running the budget and programming at PBS needs a whack on the noggin...

Secondly... egad. What's gonna happen if Disney needs Steve, Eric, David, and Matt for movies, TV specials or even just virals or public appearances? We're gonna see a LOT less Grover, Ernie, Bert, Cookie, Baby Bear, and Count VonCount, aren't we? I'm sure Kevin is WAAAAY too Busy to want to come back and be Clifford, though (shame, since I always thought it was one of his better if not best characters). I'm sure Frank would do a couple Grover and Cookie segments... but we'd see a real lack of Ernie. outside of the claymation and older skits, I don't think Ernie has been around THIS season.

See...I don't know how fans would take this, but can Steve or Eric or Jerry train someone new to help out with that? Just say that Steve trains someone until they get the character down pat. Sesame Workshop can employ them full time. The apprentice can perform Ernie while Steve can do some Kermit thing for Disney. Would that work (if they had the funds)?

Convincing John

 

[Drtooth]

I don't get that either. The "magazine" format still worked, even with Elmo's World, right? Abby's Flying Fairy School, Murray Has A Little Lamb and B&E Great Adventures, effective and educational as they are, take up a lot of time. There's barely any time for the letter and number inserts. Rather than repeated clips throughout the episode, we get what...one or two brief clips? Then it's on to 10 minutes of trying to wake up Blogg or what happens at "farm school", then Elmo talks about hats for 15 minutes.

The problem is, due to the way they air these episodes now, they can't even alternate a Murray an Abby or an Ernie and Bert. And I think it's very wasteful to have all 3 in one episode... especially since the Ernie and Bert segments completely outnumber the others and only appeared every few episodes anyway. Really... don't get the logic on that one. Seeing the same Abby 3 times in a rerun filled season isn't exactly going to hold attention that long while there are E&B segments we haven't seen yet, but are already finished.

What happened to learning how to read from Sesame Street? I'm not saying ditch the other segments altogether, but they only have an hour for the show...not even that now with all the sponsor information. If Elmo's World (or another segment) wove in the basic letters and numbers it would be even more effective and educational. Murray does the "What's on me that starts with (insert letter) " or the "Bring out your (insert letter)". Why not do something similar with Elmo's World instead of wasting time asking if a birthday cake can jump or "let's ask a baby"?

The problem is that they're trying to do WAAAAAAAY too much, buckling under pressure from hack child psychologists and parental groups. They always have, but now they're really under their thumb. ABC's and 123's have to take a backseat to nutrition (as if kids are stupid enough to NOT know they're not supposed to eat nothing but french fries and ice cream), vocabulary, science, nature... everything besides just simple counting and reading. Again, the show used to be a preschool show, now it's a prepreprepreschool show. They're this close to being a prenatal show. And Elmo's World is nonsense and noise. Kids know what feet are. 15 minutes to keep saying the same thing over and over is just... slow. This stuff used to be managed by short 2 minute songs.

Of ALL the shows to fund...why doesn't PBS put more money towards Sesame Street? I say cancel that embarrassing, degrading mess called "Super Why" (or make that horrible, purple dinosaur go extinct!) and put that money towards Sesame Street...a show with quality! There's not a single one of us here who would say "I'd like to see more Super Why! Who cares about more characters on Sesame Street?" Someone running the budget and programming at PBS needs a whack on the noggin...

Simple. Pop. Pop fizzy buzzy crap that's hot for a few months. it has to be about new and shiny and how kids all have to be talked down to like they're 1 and were dropped on the head constantly. Barney was bad enough... but the whole Dora module of education (yelling loudly and slowly, pretending to be interactive) is bull... the constant validation of how great kids are at pointing to something on the screen... that's instant gratification they don't deserve. There's a difference between Mr. Rogers saying you're a special person because you're you and you do what you can to be good at what and who you are and Super Why saying how great you are for standing around waiting for him to answer his own question.

 

[zns]

Is there any way that we can show this thread to Sesame Workshop and Joey Mazzarino? Please say that there is a way to let them know about this issue.

SpinneyBigBird1.... if you know about contacting Caroll or anyone else at the Workshop, do you think it would be possible for them to come on the forum and explain some things to us if need be. Thanks.

Please Sesame Workshop, don't let anything happen to Big Bird.

 

[SpinneyBigBird1]

Is there any way that we can show this thread to Sesame Workshop and Joey Mazzarino? Please say that there is a way to let them know about this issue.

SpinneyBigBird1.... if you know about contacting Caroll or anyone else at the Workshop, do you think it would be possible for them to come on the forum and explain some things to us if need be. Thanks.

Please Sesame Workshop, don't let anything happen to Big Bird.

I do! I have many ways to contact Caroll AND the Workshop. I will see to doing that right away.

 

[a_Mickey_Muppet]

Please Sesame Workshop, don't let anything happen to Big Bird.

yeah for real...Big Bird is my fav on SS... i CAN'T stand Elmo...Abby is getting there too!

 

[zns]

I do! I have many ways to contact Caroll AND the Workshop. I will see to doing that right away.

Thanks. But right now, I would like to say something.

I know how frustrating it is for everyone to see how different Sesame Street has become in the ast ten years or so. But I think also think that it's important to remember that Sesame Workshop is doing its job and trying to make sure that it keeps its target audience for as much as possible. And even though some characters do get popular than other from time to time, many of its major ones, including Big Bird do not get forgotten that easily. I thoroughly believe that the Workshop will continue to use Big Bird for them remainder of the shows history and that they are doing a surperb job. When I visited the set two years ago, what I say was magic. And I still think that is what Sesame Street is to this day. In short, I support Sesame Street 100% for what it is doing today.

By the way, I like Elmo mainly because he has kept the show fresh, along with Abby Cadabby. Everyone there, throughout the Henson universe and business, is wonderful and special. That is what my heart truly believes. God bless them all.

 

[MelissaY1]

Thanks. But right now, I would like to say something.

I know how frustrating it is for everyone to see how different Sesame Street has become in the ast ten years or so. But I think also think that it's important to remember that Sesame Workshop is doing its job and trying to make sure that it keeps its target audience for as much as possible. And even though some characters do get popular than other from time to time, many of its major ones, including Big Bird do not get forgotten that easily. I thoroughly believe that the Workshop will continue to use Big Bird for them remainder of the shows history and that they are doing a surperb job. When I visited the set two years ago, what I say was magic. And I still think that is what Sesame Street is to this day. In short, I support Sesame Street 100% for what it is doing today.

By the way, I like Elmo mainly because he has kept the show fresh, along with Abby Cadabby. Everyone there, throughout the Henson universe and business, is wonderful and special. That is what my heart truly believes. God bless them all.

I agree, while I haven't watched Sesame Street much the past several seasons, from what I have caught here and there, it's a very changed show. However, I don't think it's necessarily a change for the worst. Do I like that there's whole gaps of showtime dedicated to Elmo and Abby, no but I DO like the characters, love the performers behind them, and like you said I'm not the target audience.

I will say though, Sesame Street is STILL after 40 years, the best written show on T.V. for kids, it's STILL groundbreaking, fresh and clever. When I DO see bits here and there these days I still laugh out loud and I can't say that about other kids' shows or T.V. much in general these days. When it starts to lose those aspects, I think that's when the show will be in real trouble.