Question about Jim Henson's Performer Credits on SST

[minor muppetz]

That's not necessarily true...

The "presents" credit at the beginning of projects are usually for the CREATOR(s) of the project, and the creators aren't always the executive producers... like Sid and Marty Krofft for example, they put their name on top of all of their shows ("Sid and Marty Krofft's" or "Sid and Marty Krofft Present"), and most of the time, the only produced their shows, and didn't executive produce it - that job was usually saved for the likes of veteran television producer Si Rose; though later on Sid and Marty DID executive produce some of their shows later down the road.

Oh, I saw that being discussed in talk pages at Muppet Wiki (mainly concerning the "Lord Grade Presents" credit in The Great Muppet Caper).

 

[D'Snowth]

Well, in the case of movies like that, then yeah, it all depends on what studio company (or in this case, individual) who finances the movie is who usually gets the "presents" credit.

But again, mostly in television and things like that, it's usually the creator of the show who gets the "presents" credit.

 

[minor muppetz]

Slightly OT, but I was under the impression that maybe Jim felt he didn't need to take credit for something that by then most everybody was aware he was responsible for...

This gets me thinking, Jim Henson never got a "created by" credit. Maybe he didn't feel the need for such a credit. Though Charles Schultz usually got a "created by" credit in the Peanuts specials (I know, they're different people, I'm comparing apples and oranges....).

Though quite a few Henson shows have "Jim Henson's" listed above the title (or the credits say "Starring Jim Henson's Muppets"). Not sure if that's basically a creator credit, though most Henson series with his name above the title were made after his death.

 

[D'Snowth]

This gets me thinking, Jim Henson never got a "created by" credit. Maybe he didn't feel the need for such a credit. Though Charles Schultz usually got a "created by" credit in the Peanuts specials (I know, they're different people, I'm comparing apples and oranges....).

Well, as far as SST goes, it wouldn't work, because he didn't create SST, he just contributed Muppet characters to the show, whereas Schulz created the whle kit and caboodle as far as Peanut specials go... if anything, the one who would get the "Created by" or even "Developed for Television by" credit for SST would be Joan Ganz Cooney.

Though quite a few Henson shows have "Jim Henson's" listed above the title (or the credits say "Starring Jim Henson's Muppets"). Not sure if that's basically a creator credit, though most Henson series with his name above the title were made after his death.

It's not so much a creator credit, as it is like a "brand" credit, so-to-speak... it's something that was started by Walt Disney, to put your name on top of something that you create/produce/conceive/etc, because that's a way to ensure that it's your creation (which is why I'm steamed the Disney company has been erasing Jim's name from Muppet productions, and replacing it with their own); a lot of people do that, like Sid & Marty Krofft, Tim Burton, Tyler Perry, etc.

 

[minor muppetz]

It's not so much a creator credit, as it is like a "brand" credit, so-to-speak... it's something that was started by Walt Disney, to put your name on top of something that you create/produce/conceive/etc, because that's a way to ensure that it's your creation (which is why I'm steamed the Disney company has been erasing Jim's name from Muppet productions, and replacing it with their own); a lot of people do that, like Sid & Marty Krofft, Tim Burton, Tyler Perry, etc.

Has Walt Disney's name been above any of the Disney films made after his death? I feel like they have but I'm not very sure. I have noticed that some of the recent Henson productions had "The Jim Henson Company's" above the title isntead.

 

[D'Snowth]

Has Walt Disney's name been above any of the Disney films made after his death? I feel like they have but I'm not very sure. I have noticed that some of the recent Henson productions had "The Jim Henson Company's" above the title isntead.

As far as the Disney thing goes, it's similar to what you've seen with JHC, it's mostly like "Walt Disney Pictures'".

 

[dwayne1115]

In the Muppet Show Jim is credited for being a writer, producer, and Muppeter, Frank gets credit for being a Muppeter and the creative consultunt, Dvae get credited for being a builder and a Muppeter so there wheer many hats worn by them all

 

[D'Snowth]

I'm not sure if Frank really truly was an actual creative consultant, or if that was a title given to him since he's essentially Jim's number two guy, kind of like a lot of movies where Steven Spielberg is credited as executive producer, even though he had no actual involvement in the movie whatsoever, he's just given the credit simply because.

But Dave, yeah, he originally started out as just a builder, though Jim felt he had potential as a performer as well.

 

[D'Snowth]

Actually, come to think of it, for a while there in the mid-2000s, they did something similar with Frank Oz: during the end titles, all of the Muppet Performers were listed alphabetically (as opposed to seniority, like in the old days, Frank, Jerry, and Richard were always listed first), with the exception of Frank, who was listed last. Also, by this time, they stopped listed Richard altogether, as well as Jim (though until recently, the performers were always billed as "Jim Henson's Muppets").

 

[JLG]

It's not so much a creator credit, as it is like a "brand" credit, so-to-speak... it's something that was started by Walt Disney, to put your name on top of something that you create/produce/conceive/etc, because that's a way to ensure that it's your creation...

Actually, I'm pretty sure that didn't start with Walt Disney, although he did kind of elevate it to a whole other level. I know that before he hit the big time, in other studios' films you'd see "So-And-So Presents" on top. And in the 1930s, when Walt Disney Productions was still a small independent having to rely on a big-name studio to distribute its films (it's so hard to imagine that today), it was sort of a double deal----Mickey Mouse cartoons all began with "Joseph M. Schenck presents Walt Disney's Mickey Mouse" with "A United Artists Picture" underneath. (No prints with this version of the opening remain in circulation----they've all been replaced with new title lettering that faithfully recreates the originals but omits references to Schenck and U.A.)
Max Fleischer cartoons from the same period say "Adolph Zukor presents a Max Fleischer Color Classic." Same thing----a double deal.