Puppet Patterns: What's A Fair Price?

[puppetsmith]

Hey, thanks for the support Buck!

I'd be happy to help you put together the patterns to make available on PuppetBuilding.com. I use Illustrator to layout the Project Puppet patterns, so it would be no trouble at all. Just shoot me an email.

And as for the other recent comments, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Project Puppet certainly doesn't force anyone to purchase the patterns it makes available. Personally, I think the patterns are very reasonably priced (considering the work that goes into them and the freedom to use puppets made with the patterns in any way you wish). No one is making an "enormous profit"...I can assure you that.

Patience, maybe this post will help you see the benefit of a one-piece head pattern. You may want to take a look at the full March 2006 archive for more insight. It's not such a far-fetched idea. One piece - less seams - easier to see how the pattern goes together - easier to make effective adjustments to the pattern (even for beginners). The effectiveness of the patterns should be apparent from the puppet pictures sent in and posted in the Gallery.

Maybe not as impressive as what BiblePuppet.com has to offer, but, hey, we try.

 

[Patience]

Bezalel,

Thanks for the links I will look as soon as I finish this. I have looked at the Gallery, just finished looking at Burg (again) and I still can't see any seams from the pictures.

I was looking at the "Forma Series" not the "Simple Series". I guess when the cost of the "Forma Series" is so much more, I expected it to be more of a professional pattern. Maybe it is just my past (Fashion Design) that continues to haunt me. It just seems to me to be "too simple" to have only one pattern piece. But I am new to puppets so as I said maybe I have more to learn than I thought. I'm sure you've read the past posts, so you know I've heard good things about your patterns. I just want/need more specific info.

If you want to improve the web site, group the pictures the same way you do the patterns. ex: Pinhead --and have all his pictures available on one page, separate from the pictures of Punto and his pictures. Or have the name of the pattern viewable when I put my mouse over the picture. The main Gallery page has pictures smaller than most postage stamps, which makes it hard for me (at least) to determine which pattern the character came from. (e-mail is a tough media, I mean no disrespect).

Patience,

 

[Patience]

Patience, maybe this post will help you see the benefit of a one-piece head pattern. You may want to take a look at the full March 2006 archive for more insight. It's not such a far-fetched idea. One piece - less seams - easier to see how the pattern goes together - easier to make effective adjustments to the pattern (even for beginners).

Thank you for the links. When it said "one-piece" pattern I envisioned something totally different. Hope this works! O.K. it didn't work, but it was crudely drawn anyway. (I don't have my tablet/stylus set up right now). From the picture of the pattern I can now see what you mean, and it looks way better than I was expecting! The picture really helps! A LOT!

And another Great Big Thank You, for the article. I was on the phone (spent all of today's NapTime and a little extra, "No it's not time to get up yet"!) trying to find better quality materials. Wish I had had the right words to describe what I was looking for. I called foam places and aviation places and even places that sell aquariums, because the heating/air conditioning guys didn't want to help. My explanation of what I'm looking for is (and yes this is exactly what I told them)"the same consistency as the scrubbie thing I use to scrub my pots with, only I need it to be 1/2" thick". I'm sure they all had a good laugh, every time I got put me on hold!

I'll go back at it again tomorrow! and hope to find someone willing to sell me some. Hoping that will be easier with the right words! No one seemed to know what I was talking about when I said "Scott Foam"!

Gotta get to bed, before someone gets up!

Patience

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Scott Foam is a brand name. Tell them you are looking for reticulated foam. I am not aware of anyone in the GTA who sells it in small quantities, although you can buy small pieces at Canadian Tire (they are sold as filters for humidifiers). There is at least one company that sells in bulk, but they have a $300 minimum order.

Best bet for a small quantity is probably to order online through Project Puppet.

 

[Patience]

Foam

B-B,

Thanks for the info. I found one place that has it, but I would have to buy $100.00 worth. It is not the cost holding me back, it's where to store it!

How long would it take to go through that much (4 foot wide by 100 feet long). I may have worked with the carpet foam and the junk foam (I understand why they call it that) but I already want the better stuff. I will continue to use the junk for my trial/error or mock up (as your industry calls it, I still think of it as a "Muslin" because that's what we do in Fashion Design).

Another question, when I was in fashion, I used what we refer to as a "Judy" (a cloth covered manequin) to fit things to. We had to have it fit the Judy before we did fittings with the models (it was suppose to save time and $ with the models). Anyway, am I nuts or would it be a good idea to make something out of Paper Mache to use as a base? Just like fashion (and the different sizes), I'd have to make one for each head shape.

I have a date today with (can't remember right now what the company is, but her name is Eilane and it isn't far from my house) she has a small piece she wants to give me to try. If it works, (or is the right stuff, she wasn't sure) she said she would put me in touch with her supplier. Failing that, I'll either resort to CT (as you suggested, the Pet Stores have it too! for fish tanks) or start looking again. I haven't been to Queen St. yet either, Benny ought to know where to find it, if I can catch him in a good mood!

Gotta go break up a fight!
Have a great day, I'll let you know if I find the right stuff!

Patience

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Who sells it with the $100 minimum order?

 

[Patience]

I found another place today that actually has the right fabric (their's is 30 ppi instead of 35 ppi) and will cut it to whatever size I want. They get it in 40" Square, (I think that's what the woman said, screaming kids you know!) she offered me a piece 24" x 36" (or was it 40" ?) for about $20.00. But it was not in Toronto, so I'd have to pay shipping, which is another $5.00. Is that reasonable? I'm also waiting for a call back from a different company. I'll let you know what I find.

As for the place I went to today (with 2 of the 3 Wee Ones) she didn't have the right stuff (it was more like quilt batt). However, when I showed her the scrubbie thing I use for pots, she made a call and said she would let me know when she hears back. I just knew so close to home was too good to be true!

After that I went to Canadian Tire (no luck there) and then the PetSmart (no luck there either).

Then I went to the $ store, and saw the package my scrubbie comes in. I called the manufacturer, waiting for a call back from them as well.

I haven't had time (I don't really wonder why) to actually attack the skin. Now I'm looking at the "naked" puppet thinking he/she (can you believe all 3 kids agree it should be a girl?) should have knees and elbows! I'll just bet naming the things won't be so easy!

Question: Do you make the arms and legs in one piece or do you make it in pieces with elbows, wrists, knees and ankles?

P

 

[SesameKermie]

Patience, I know it gets frustrating hearing this, but it really depends on what the puppet is designed to do and it's size. For the 'Glorified Sock Puppet' creations, I don't think elbows and knees are necessary. For larger puppets with foam bodies and such, I would use the method that Patrick Johnson detailed in his "Ratchet" Tutorial: Make a tube, sew across roughly in half, and then stuff each half. Once you've got that, you might want to make a 'skin to go over the tube that disguises the seam. It all really depends on how you want the puppet to do.

 

[Patience]

Thanks for the reply and the info. Hope this gives the right visual. This is what I ended up doing.

I cut the arm in half at the elbow. Then joined it at the back of the elbow and placed a small piece of elastic between the 2 "bones" or pieces on the inside of the elbow. Does that make sense? Doing so prevents the arm from moving the wrong way at the joint.

For the knees I am planning to put a small ball (haven't found one the right size yet) in the leg tube where the patella (knee bone) should be. This way when he sits, his/her knees will stick out a little rathern than go flat.

I had to attach the wrists because that's where the arm rod/s will go. I intend to make an elastic wrist band and cover it with a tube of the "skin" or just make a small loop in the skin for the arm rod to slip into.

My Puppets are for Church (approximately 600+/- ) and my own children, so I would like to make them as versatile as possible. Like the dolls I made (as a teenager) I am making wigs, instead of attaching the hair directly onto the head. With 3 children, and a Sunday School full, I'll have lots of clothes. I made the foot fit into a child's size 3 shoe (the youngest if finished with), so shoes shouldn't be a problem either. I may have to alter the pants, but that's better than making something from scratch.

My Puppet (or my first attempt) will be about 28" tall with shoes and a head. His/her arms are about 12-14" (can't remember exactly) the body is about 10-11" tall. I made the body fit nicely into a discarded boy's T-shirt size 24 months. Used the hand of the youngest child to make a mitt pattern for size. Then used the mitt to design a more cartoon like hand with 3 fingers and a thumb of sorts.

Question:
Anyone here make Puppets for Church? I have no idea how many I'll need etc.

Question:
Is it somehow considered wrong to use Muppet style characters for Church? All the Church puppets I've seen so far (on the web) are cartoon style people!

As usual, any/all advice is much appreciated. Can't tell you how much I've gotten from your board. Hope to give back soon! Maybe tomorrow if I get any call backs!

Oophs! I have another question:
Since I have experience sewing and pattern drafting, will I be disappointed with the "Simple Series" from PP? I really want a Professional pattern of some sort. Here are my options: One from the forma series or all three from the simple series.

Which do you have? and/or which do you suggest?

P.

 

[SesameKermie]

That actually makes a lot of sense, Patience. I may try making some of my puppet limbs like that. There are really no right or wrong ways of puppet building, for whatever purpose. It's more a matter of which method works best to achieve the result you want.

As far as using puppets in church, I'd check with resources like One Way Street, and Puppetminister.com. They have some good resources for the 'ministry' side of puppet ministry. I don't think it's "wrong" to use muppet style puppets, for church. It's just that many churches buy patterns that anyone can fabricate, and don't really get into character design and such.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the 'Simple Series' from PP. You can make some great professional looking puppets from that base. Take a look at Nojoy's site (I forget the link at the moment--it's late/early) He used the Simple Series bases and was able to recreate recognizable characters like smurfs and Yakko Warner. The simple series shows you how to make the basic head. You create a character from that by adding features and animating it. There was an early Sesame sketch (it's on one of the DVD sets, Old School 1, I think) that has featureless anything muppets that get eyes, noses, etc added to make them into characters--people in the neighborhood. The Simple Series provides the same kind of effect. You start with a blank head, and gradually you see a character as you add features. I haven't tried any of the 'Forma' series or the Mostro, but I do own the Pinhead and the Glorified Sock puppet, and I've created several characters based on those patterns. I'll post them later.