Puppet Help...

[AWDmeister]

Okay, before I ask anything, I'm sure I'll get this so... yes, I'm aware of the numerous tutorials out there and I have watched them and have used some for example, and yes, I have read the FAQ on this forum. If there is anything I'm doing wrong, I probably missed it, so I apologize in advance...

With that said... I need serious help with my puppet building...

For the past couple years now, my girlfriend and I have been struggling to create a puppet of my own design. We've gone through copious amounts of foam, contact cement, razors, patterns you name it... Ultimately, we're at a loss... Through several trials and error, we just don't know what we're doing wrong...

We've also asked help from several puppet builders that we know of... most of which wouldn't help, but we recently got tips from someone who was very willing to help, but I fear we've already gotten on their nerves with our questions...

I'm a traditional artist by trade, that being said, I love puppets, I love the way they look, I always wanted to make one. A few years back i was planning to make one for a video series, but I must have tried three or four times before I eventually gave up... our latest puppet seems to have been the closest... but we're not getting the correct shapes despite having several tips on our side... I'm on the verge of commissioning someone to do it for me but I just don't have the funds right now... So we're going to try one last time, begging, PLEADING for help so we can at least feel we accomplished something...

I've been a little shy to reveal my project publicly... but it's come to this so I have to in hopes I can get some help.

This is the original plans of the design I created:

The next drawing were given to us by a helpful puppeteer with experience, who told us it would work best if he was angled forward and given more of a bottom lip. These points were necessary as our previous incarnations proved that they were essential to the design and we tried to adopt them.

Our latest incarnation had us at a problem... we've been attempting to make a mouth, partial shape to the dome. We've done this a few times, trying to make the shape, but it either becomes too pointy or small and the mouth will not fit level with the top. The information given to us seems very easy, but we've only been given general ideas and we've only been able to work with what we have. Getting specific patterns would be essential because I don't even know if puppets like this have been made and I can't find them. We've essentially been given the following to make: "Dome" "frustum" "Jaw"

I've tried several domes in the past, but what I did was attempt to make one off the pattern of a baseball cap, seemed to work the best. If there are easier methods of making a dome I probably have missed on them, or they require a huge number of math skills (of which I don't have... I had to ask for help on the frustum as well)

The images you see are the frustum and dome and mouth, this is the SECOND frustum we attempted, the first time, the mouth part was cut too deep. This one is now cut too wide. We're scrapping these... The mouth also is too pointy, our dome is odd... I can't even look at this anymore I'm so frustrated... sorry...

What we want to do is try again, one last time... We are hoping to get specific details on the base pattern to work with. Any information will help, I'm actually not sure if we've even got the right foam anymore, it's difficult to cut, but I've been managing fine so I'm not honestly having any difficulty with that part of it. The fur pattern can be easy as long as we have the base foam patterns.

Essentially this puppet has a 5-inch diameter (2.5-inch radius) base on the dome of his head, the the frustum tapering down a height of 18 inches, and the bottom being 2.75-3 inches in radius... We've been trying to figure out where it is we need to cut the mouth on the frustum, what we need to cut on the dome, and the shape of the mouth itself... I can tell you we've tried many times through trial and error, and we're still having issues... So... If there is anyone out there kind enough to lend us a good pattern to start with, we'd be much appreciated. We can negotiate something if we have to, just keeping in mind my budget is already running out on this thing considering all the tools and materials we've already wasted.

So this is another attempt of mine for some help... I'm not a professional, my time is mostly dedicated to drawing and that's practically my job and this is a side project... It's been going on for too long and I would like to finally see a result of mine complete and at least a bit more competent than previous incarnations.

Thank you

 

[NextJim1225]

Hmm... In terms of altering the skull and jaw patterns, I'd recommend elongating the skull (base wise) and possibly shorting the sides of the jaw. Now trying to get the lean in the body, I'd either play around with patterning different foam bodies or more economically, molding a model of the body out of clay, wrapping it in plastic wrap, and pattern it out of masking tape. If you go on google and search for how to pattern a mascot head, this technique should be bound to pop up for a more detailed explanation. Honestly, I know how you feel, you want this puppet, especially it being your first, to be perfect. Any person who's built a puppet or any artist in general feels this way anytime they start on something. Most importantly, your first puppet will not be your best, but no matter how it turns out, embrace it, develop, and be able to work with it. Although it's easy to think of an exterior aesthetic as being most important, tis the soul and fun you bring to the puppet that makes it alive.

 

[BuckyBits]

Puppets and Banjos (DAVID STEPHENS) has some images of Squiddles, an octopus that has a mouth kind of like Beaker. That might work for what you're doing.

 

[Animal31]

To be honest, I didn't see anything wrong with your original design. But I'm thinking the same as BuckyBits, I think you have to cut the bottom jaw down a bit more and make it more like Beaker, almost an upsidedown U shape. The only issue with that may be that on a Beaker head, your hand goes almost straight up into the head of the puppet, so be sure to cut it on an angle so that it will work with the top part of your head as well...

 

[Buck-Beaver]

So I think I can help, but my price is a short rant...

We've also asked help from several puppet builders that we know of... most of which wouldn't help, but we recently got tips from someone who was very willing to help, but I fear we've already gotten on their nerves with our questions...

What we want to do is try again, one last time... We are hoping to get specific details on the base pattern to work with. Any information will help, I'm actually not sure if we've even got the right foam anymore, it's difficult to cut, but I've been managing fine so I'm not honestly having any difficulty with that part of it. The fur pattern can be easy as long as we have the base foam patterns.

All that really stands between what you envision and what you're getting is time and experience. This is never the answer anyone wants to hear, but - as frustrating as it is - the trial and error is good for you. The odd time when I'm asked what advice I have for puppet building I usually respond with "go build 100 puppets and come back and talk to me," which I'm sure makes me sound like a jerk, but that is what I was told and it was some of the best advice that I ever received.

Two failed attempts is nothing really. I've worked with amazing artists who - even with all their knowledge and experience - often build four, five, even six prototypes before they come up with the final pattern for a puppet.

Also, as an illustrator, I'm sure you can appreciate that experienced, professional puppet builders who have spent years and often lots of money to learn their craft are sometimes reluctant to solve problems for free, just like experienced, professional artists are sometimes are reluctant to do drawings for free. That's probably why you're getting suggestions and not step-by-step instructions.

I find it's very helpful to always remember that just like plumbers like to be paid to fix toilets, most puppet builders like to be paid to pattern puppets.

So... If there is anyone out there kind enough to lend us a good pattern to start with, we'd be much appreciated. We can negotiate something if we have to, just keeping in mind my budget is already running out on this thing considering all the tools and materials we've already wasted.

When you're building a custom puppet it's unusual to find a specific pattern that someone will be able to give you. Puppet building just rarely works that way. I've been building foam puppets off and on for almost 20 years and even though I have a huge box patterns I've amassed over the years, every time I have to do something new I'm essentially starting from scratch. The only difference is that once you've built dozens (or hundreds) of puppets, you've been confronted with different types of challenges, made lots of mistakes and learned lots of different strategies for solving problems.

We've been trying to figure out where it is we need to cut the mouth on the frustum, what we need to cut on the dome, and the shape of the mouth itself... I can tell you we've tried many times through trial and error, and we're still having issues...

I can help with patterning the dome, but trial and error is the only real solution for determining the shape of the mouth (once again, see my annoying "go build 100 puppets advice"). I'm pretty sure I could solve it easily, but my solution would just be to pattern out a couple bodies and experiment with different mouth shapes until I found something that I like. I don't think there is a short around that.

As for the "dome", download this wedge pattern.

Using "the wedge method" you can create different type of round shapes. The wedge pattern is four times longer than it is wide. Eight wedges with that ratio glued together will give you a perfect sphere. Four will give you half a sphere. By altering the length, shape and number of wedges you can create almost any round shape that you want. Be sure to cut your foam so that the edges are 90 degress and perfectly straight. Unevenly cut foam results in an uneven shape when the wedges are glued together.

Some experimentation is required, but that's always the case.

You can also search for the forum for "the wedge method" and read old threads that discuss it (this has been discussed here many, many times before). You'll find a lot of good advice in those old threads if you do some digging.

Personally, it took me almost a year to properly learn how to use wedges to make different shapes for different puppets and that was with a very experienced puppet builder guiding me. Almost everyone here has gone through the same thing on some level.

I know you're frustrated, but even if your first few attempts don't work out, keep going. That's just part of the learning process. I hope the wedge pattern helps. Try a few things, take pictures, post results and ask more questions.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

You can also search for the forum for "the wedge method" and read old threads that discuss it (this has been discussed here many, many times before). You'll find a lot of good advice in those old threads if you do some digging.

I meant to add last night that when looking for old threads, it's a good idea to search the forum using a site specific search on Google. For some reason, the Forum's search is not always comprehensive any more. I think that why in the last year or two members have been complaining that they can't find information that was shared in old threads.

 

[Muppetlab]

Really good post Buckbeaver..

 

[Rymoore21]

Make a tube and where the mouth is just cut an upside down U. Make a mouthboard of the same size and attach it. The roof of the mouth should be vertical for this one. The mouth will not naturally stay open which will make it rough on your thumbs, but it will look good.