No mention of proposed Muppet series on FOX

[frogboy4]

So it seems this dire prediction corresponds more with your disapproval of a new show than anything that has to do with Fox. I think it's waaaaay to soon to begin any speculation on that line. It's just looking like another "glass half empty" sort of statement in a chain of many having to do with Henson projects. I get what you mean, but it's like jumping the gun far too early. Even from someone in the biz (esspecially as someone in the biz) you should know that absolutly nothing is certain and there is no real formula that makes or breaks a hit.

 

[Luke]

Nope Jamie - y'see I didn't make ANY dire prediction, you spend a lot of time posting, how bout some reading eh ?

FYI - i don't dissaprove of a new show, i said it was a little early for it in a period in the industry that doesn't like to take risks - obviously a puppet show as opposed to a reality or game show formula is a considered risk. I wasn't particularly trying to make anti-Fox comments (which is what you read, and jumped on) i think it's the same for any company in the industry right now.

There certainly are forumlas in TV where you are near enough promised a hit, but they change every few years. Last year it was reality quiz shows, the year before it was reality entertainment series, this year it's a mix of both of those plus nostalgia. Of course you can't guarantee each single show as a hit, but you can concentrate on the winning genres as opposed to new ideas which would be more uncertain. So actually your statement there was about half right.

Please don't start criticising 'glass half empty' statements - if we are going to start analysing them then I might care enough to look at some of yours, especially the Palisades and Disney threads. It IS possible to have some foresight into how well the Muppets will do, and what problems they will encounter in 6-8 months time, obviously the board of the Henson Company spend a lot of time doing the same thing.

 

[frogboy4]

Luke - I didn't reallyt pounce on you It just seems like your mind is made up about many of these projects before they even go into production. That was my point. If you find it was some kind of personal criticism I apologize.

As for making a "dire prediction", stating that the Muppets will probably get the exact same treatment as Greg is making a dire prediction because Greg was reprotedly canceled. My mind on this is that maybe they are making room for the Muppets on their lineup. I have always had concerns that the two projects could have trouble coexisting on the same network.

Greg's main problem as I saw it was that if people want to see Muppets - they'll watch the Muppets and if they want to see crass gross-out over-the-edge humor they'll stick with South Park. If Greg were on cable it would have fared better. They couldn't be as "edgy" as they needed to be even on Fox IMHO.

I know the Muppets is a longshot on any network these days, but we'll see. I have faith that will the return of Fozzie and Piggy and the lessons of MFS and MT that they may figure it out. Okay - the glass is just half with me...maybe a drop more.

 

[Luke]

Hi Jamie,

Yes i guess you could call it a little pessemistic, but my problem isn't really with the Henson Productions, i know they will make a fantastic show - it's more with the viewers and the pressure JHC will get from others like EMTV and Fox.

I don't really think the viewership for any kind of Muppet television programme has changed all that much since 1996 (Muppets Tonight) and if they couldn't get enough viewers then, i fail to see what has changed. (For one, they haven't been in the public eye as much), and adding to that they'll be on Fox of all places. Granted they'll get an extra push from all the 25th anniversary promotion but is it enough ? I hope so, but I am kinda of the mind that if they don't get enough viewers in the first month or so they will likely get cancelled just like 'Greg'. That show had a cult viewership just like the new Muppet show will but it wasn't enough. I guess i'm saying that they could make the best show on earth but still be let down by an audience who don't think the muppets are 'cool' enough anymore and don't even bother to watch. Thats what i was trying to say when i said they would probably get treated the same as Greg !

I do agree with you that 'Greg' was never able to be as edgy as the producers would have liked and quite possibly Fox wasn't ready for the show, I guess that as well as the ratings was its downfall. I don't think they cleared Greg out for the Muppets (Muppets are too far off an airdate for that) but i do agree that its better the two shows weren't on Fox at the same time - you'd get all manner of comparisons in the press. As i've said you are more or less right in your statement that Fox treats ailing shows better, i myself have worked in a Murdoch run company and they do tend to stand by things, and be more behind alternative ideas, but they are also shrewd and won't lose a lot financially - especially not on rights that cost a lot of money.

My point on the timing of this new show is that i'm pretty dissalusioned with the way EMTV is milking the 25th anniversary thing. It seems they have finally found a way to get as much mileage as they can to milk the brand for all its worth and then just dump them sometime early/mid next year. Of course in that time they would have pulled in the merchandising money, the two TV deals, possibly another Muppetfest. In my mind they are rushing the Henson Company to cram as much in as possible before they sell - i would have liked them to have seen how the TV movie goes down before the TV series actually went into production.

I also think the Henson Company are probably being forced into catering for lots of different markets rather than being the 'one for all' family brand that made them so successful. Kermit Swamp Years was the other project i wasn't entirely happy about and it comes as no suprise they are doing a Kermit project exclusively for pre-school kids when its no secret that this is the exact same market EMTV are trying desperately hard to break into in the USA and UK. I'd probably question whether JHC would have ever done that movie if it wasn't from pressure higher up - it's just not in their style !

Anyway thats just my take on it - i really hope they do well but sometimes i do think that the odds are stacked against them nowdays !

 

[frogboy4]

I agree it will be tough. To be honest, after the horrific result of MFS in terms of critics, BO receipts and many fans (I was actually embarrassed for them in the theater) that I have many doubts about a successful series. I'm still holding out hope. I actually think Fox might be the best place for them. The only other idea would me maybe HBO or Showtime, but less people would see them that wayb and they would likely get pegged in the children't market.

 

[BoyRaisin2]

Just making sure, really. The Jim Henson Company IS still up for sale, right? I mean EM.TV is not keeping them right? EM.TV's deadline is October 2002. If EM.TV doesn't sell by that time, a year-and-a-half after putting Henson on the block, would they keep them or just sell to Disney (or whoever)? Luke? Phil? Froggie?

I'm just getting annoyed by EM.TV's (or Disney's) progress.

 

[frogboy4]

I'd buy them, but all I have is a jar full of penniies and a pocket full of lint! I agree with Luke - EMTV is definitely milking the aniversary for all they can get. It will likely be next year before they consider selling. That is, unless Disney gets anxious enough to snatch them up now. EMTV knows that Disney is the best bet here and they are both playing a waiting game. I'd bet on the Mouse to win the staring contest. They're good at negotiating. It's not that they won't pay for the Muppets right now, they just don't want to overpay like EMTV did. And boy did they. I don't think Disney wants to pass the 300-400M dollar mark and EMTV won't let them go for less than 500 or so. I do hppe that something happens soon. Limbo is not a good place for the Muppets. I just hope Disney treats them well.

 

[BoyRaisin2]

I just want SOMEBODY (in other words, DISNEY) to buy them, so I can see more classic Henson/Muppet stuff. I haven't watched much Muppet stuff in a WHILE, but today I watched MFC, Bunny Picnic,and Labyrinth and it felt good.If Disney(or whoever) buys the Muppets, there'd be a better chance of me seeing (and better yet recording) more Henson stuff that I rarely get to see, instead of watching the same stuff over and over. Dying to see "The Muppets at WDW" again. Need to revive my urge to watch Muppet stuff.

Also, it'd be really radical if they revived that plan for the Muppets to "take over" Disneyland.

So let's not wait 'til January 2003 for a sale of The Jim Henson Co. Can't look at Henson.com video clips forever.

 

[frogboy4]

I'd rather have it come sooner rather than later. I just don't think it's likely. It is an uneasy feeling for Kermit and the gang to have a sort of "foster home" (for lack of a better term). They really deserve a permanent residence.

 

[BoyRaisin2]

And that residence:
500 S. Buena Vista St.
Burbank, CA 91521

Good night!