New and very interesting post from Steve Whitmire

[MWoO]

The thing about "One Muppet one voice" is that it doesn't mean a performer shouldn't be recast. It just means one performer at a time. Also, it should be noted that Sesame Workshop didn't do things that way, though for different reasons.

David and Eric took over for Frank Oz, Frank would still come back and perform once or twice a year for awhile. In one skit I recall, he started performing one character and then switched to another while Eric took over the first one. Of course, this isn't the same as having multiple performers out doing public appearances and cruises and such, but it still goes against the whole idea of "One Muppet one voice".

The same went for Big Bird. Matt and Caroll did Big Bird simultaneously for decades. But we all understood the purpose so there was no backlash.

At the end of the day, it was more about job security for the main performers (which I don't disagree with) than it was about the artistry.

It is interesting that Brian said his issue with Steve was around business ethics. I wonder what that means? Either way, it still seems clear that Steve disagreed with how things were being run and he was difficult to work with from a business perspective. I am sure he is a swell guy to perform with, and I am sure anyone who lost a job because Steve was protective of his job is going to be biased against Steve.

What is telling to me is that no one works with him anymore. Obviously there is something there. I think it is just a matter of Steve not "knowing his place", to put it bluntly. He seems to think he should have had much more creative control than he did. Even if he was right about everything, it wasn't his place keep giving unsolicited opinions and is rude to the people who are actually in charge. Voice one's opinion is perfectly fine when someone wants it, but can be downright rude if no one asked for it.

 

[Grumpo]

It is interesting that Brian said his issue with Steve was around business ethics. I wonder what that means? Either way, it still seems clear that Steve disagreed with how things were being run and he was difficult to work with from a business perspective. I am sure he is a swell guy to perform with, and I am sure anyone who lost a job because Steve was protective of his job is going to be biased against Steve.

What is telling to me is that no one works with him anymore. Obviously there is something there. I think it is just a matter of Steve not "knowing his place", to put it bluntly. He seems to think he should have had much more creative control than he did. Even if he was right about everything, it wasn't his place keep giving unsolicited opinions and is rude to the people who are actually in charge. Voice one's opinion is perfectly fine when someone wants it, but can be downright rude if no one asked for it.

Yep, it looks like Steve has been blacklisted, and apparently the whole thing was a result of some disagreement with management (what else?). Apart from that, no details are given. Knowing his devotion to authenticity and keeping "Jim's influence" alive that might well be the reason for the conflict. As for was it good or bad, who knows.... IF it was something like standing up against, like "hey, i got this swell idea, lets shoot Happytime Murders with Kermit" it is worth being respected. But it could be pretty much anything else, like mentioning that he liked early seasons of Two and a Half Men in the wrong part of the studio, or there was a talk about him being late for commercial because of SAG-AFTRA regulation (and SAG-AFTRA is not something to be taken lightly) -- but i am not going to believe rumors. make assumptions or pass judgement unless i know more. My biggest regret here is that whatever it was, it could and should be handled differently, in much less drastic way for the Muppets and fan community.

At the end of the day, it was more about job security for the main performers (which I don't disagree with) than it was about the artistry.

I sincerely hope not for main performers. All this community talk about "Jim's legacy" or keeping Muppet characters "precious" and "authentic" may sound like a delusion these days -- but it might just as well give Muppets that edge which makes a difference, and still keeps Kermit invited as a guest of honor to events and graduations, instead of Mickey Mouse.
Not that i have anything against job security for the main performers =)

Agree with the rest of your points, and if you read carefully, Steve says the same things as well, about passing this stuff to new performers gradually, almost on subconscious level, and not 'keeping it all to originators only' at all (at least the way i read his blog)

 

[antsamthompson9]

Billy Barkhurst responded to David's post. Look for the user ReadingBug: https://www.reddit.com/r/Muppets/comments/1r6e15y

 

[GonzoIsCool]

I have mixed feelings. I saw Steve Whitmire at his first convention after he got fired. I could see the life go back into his eyes when he saw my Sprocket puppet and when he talked about Jim. But otherwise he looked like his soul had left his body. I let him put on my Sprocket puppet and I could see him shed off the years of stress in an instant as he excitedly said it was the exact same size. But I also like Matt Vogel's performance. Either way, someone is going to get hurt.

I will say this, it's very nice to see Disney hiring additional puppeteers. There just aren't that many great opportunities out there for puppeteers anymore. I just wish it didn't come at the expense of the old guard.

 

[antsamthompson9]

 

[Grumpo]

Has Kermit Lost Touch With His Roots

Kermit the Frog New Voice

The tricks of human perception... no wonder humanity needs whole religion institutions to interpret religious texts. =)

Watch for the tricky "he basically says" moment here:

1. His blog reads [excerpt]
2. He basically says that [personal interpretation with a twist]
3. But we know that [facts and arguments from Muppet history that defeat the twist]
4. ...and this [twist] is disrespectful to his ex-colleagues
5. What it really is, instead [very valid reasoning which mostly does not contradict what Steve says]
6. Also, there are so many haters dissing Matt on the web that he should not say anything critical about new Kermit at all.

Try reading Steve's blog calmly instead, while looking for different interpretation of what he actually says, while keeping in mind:

• that Steve actually knows more about Muppets history, people, and recasts than any of us here
• that he really and honestly means no disrespect to his ex-colleagues, and purposely keeps the discussion to Muppet character principles, not people
• that being critical of Kermit performance does not mean disparaging Matt, whether internet trolls are doing their thing or not
• (this one may be tough) that he indeed knows what he is talking about

Of course, having spent half of his life looking for ways to keep Kermit authentic to Jim, the differences in the performance must be much more jarring to him than to any viewers. Plus, the blog was written before the Special went out, when most we had to go by was various unscripted event performances posted to YouTube by Tough Pigs. The personality difference is way more pronounced there. The Special performance feels much more like Kermit, once the writing is good -- Kudos to Matt's abilities and Special scriptwriters. (But let me note here for the sake of completeness, that Steve's Kermit felt like Jim, though sad and unhappy, even when the writing was pretty bad.)

Myself, i wish Steve was wrong, too. Alas--

All of them, Gavan Sullivan and Andy Coleman and Steve are right about one thing they all actually agree upon (among many other common points, i think their reasoning related to Muppets is very valid, and not too different). The Muppets are changing. We have to face it. Jim's gone. Steve's gone. Everyone but Gonzo (and Bunsen) is recast. There is no need to push Matt's Kermit through -- he's already here. As the guys rightfully noted, even the "lineage" process of passing the characters on by calling and toiling is not perfect, or sometimes cannot be done for various reasons. Then, even with veteran performers having decades of Muppet work under their belt, the writers, writing, and even viewers are changing too -- the life itself is different, and we have now whole generations of people who grew up on Muppets 2011/2015 instead of Jim's classics (which Frank said he was not able to watch through because he did not recognize the Muppets there).
Somewhat simplified and different to various degrees, the fresh interpretations of Muppets (call it "reboot", "tribute" or "Muppets dell'Arte") are unavoidable, and even necessary if Muppets are to survive in the future -- even if everyone tries their best to preserve what they feel is the nature of their characters.

The days of the "first called" Jim's team of old-timers and originator-driven character integrity are coming to an end. It is a tragedy to Steve, who literally tried all his life to hold a piece of Jim's soul in his hand, and keep the Muppets authentic to originals we love. He writes about the old world crumbling in his blog, and about his concern that changing Muppets won't be able to hold the same level of viewer's involvement and sympathy.

But this is also the only source of hope for the next generations. We can only hope that next recast performers (and even more so the writers, as their role now becomes so much more important, without the originator authority) -- that they will find a way to convey the same Jim Henson's Muppets message of hope, kindness and acceptance of oneself and others, with the same sincerity and humor that made the original Muppet Show so dear to out hearts.

I just can't help wishing that we could all pretend it is not time for that yet, and that i could enjoy my Kermit and my Muppets i grew up with for 10, 20, 30 years more. =(