Muppets Tonight what went wrong?

[Drtooth]

Actually, I always felt the few frequently used classic Muppets (Kermit, Gonzo, etc.) took a considerable backseat to the new characters.

Kermit was in that weird phase where he wasn't being used much. I don't see why there wasn't more Gonzo, but he had his fair share of screen time.

Oddly enough, I do consider most of the new characters the show's greatest assets. To the point where some of the older characters used weren't really given sketches that worked with them. Deep Dish Nine, for example. They got Piggy, but they didn't get what made Pigs in Space special. ERERO was cute, but lacking, with Fozzie in Dr. Bob/Rowlf's role. However, things like Johnny and Sal, Pepe and Seymour, Tales from the Vet, and the UK skits as well as one off pop culture parodies more than made up for the lack of classic characters. The good newer characters pretty much carried the show for me.

Of course, if MT was made today, there would be a definite lack of new characters as most of the beloved classic characters have been recast. Rowlf, Scooter, the Electric Mayhem... if there was a new Muppet show, we'd see a lot more of them while Sal and VanNeuter need to be recast (unless Brian decided to freelance to Disney, but he's too busy currently with Henson stuff), and the rest of them we hardly saw anymore anyway.

Now I needn't feel to repeat myself, but my favorite format, hands down, was Jim Henson Hour's Muppet Central segment. If they were able to merge the best of The Muppet Show, JHH, and MT, that would be the direction I'd like to see another hypothetical show.

 

[minor muppetz]

And, as has been mentioned previously, a lot of MT's direct pop-culture spoofs had too many appearances (Bay of PigsWatch, Deep Dish Nine, Seinfeld Babies) or shouldn't have even made the show.

I don't think any of the recurring segments were used much (not sure whether having only 22 episodes is a good enough excuse). The best recurring segments weren't used enough and, thankfully, the worst ones weren't used too much.

Oddly enough, I do consider most of the new characters the show's greatest assets. To the point where some of the older characters used weren't really given sketches that worked with them. Deep Dish Nine, for example. They got Piggy, but they didn't get what made Pigs in Space special. ERERO was cute, but lacking, with Fozzie in Dr. Bob/Rowlf's role. However, things like Johnny and Sal, Pepe and Seymour, Tales from the Vet, and the UK skits as well as one off pop culture parodies more than made up for the lack of classic characters. The good newer characters pretty much carried the show for me.

I wonder if the show would have succeeded if it was only new characters, and lacked the Muppet name. If it didn't have any Muppet characters or the Muppet name in the title, people wouldn't be complaining about the lack of existing characters, but then it might be harder to get people interested.

I wonder if Disney would do a Muppet show with mostly new characters.

 

[Muppet Master]

You know, the thing is I'm going to say this straight-out, MUPPETS TONIGHT WAS AN AWESOME SHOW!! It was, but then, because it's the muppets we HAVE to compare it to TMS. Why? No matter how good MT was, TMS was loads better (well most of the episodes). I mean I'd take a MT episode over most of the first season of TMS. Remember, TMS evolved after 24 episodes, MT had 22, found its stride, and was canned. Nowadays potential doesn't matter, if it doesn't work in the first few episodes then say hello to the cancellation bear.

 

[Muppet Master]

I don't think any of the recurring segments were used much (not sure whether having only 22 episodes is a good enough excuse). The best recurring segments weren't used enough and, thankfully, the worst ones weren't used too much.



I wonder if the show would have succeeded if it was only new characters, and lacked the Muppet name. If it didn't have any Muppet characters or the Muppet name in the title, people wouldn't be complaining about the lack of existing characters, but then it might be harder to get people interested.

I wonder if Disney would do a Muppet show with mostly new characters.

That would just bomb, no excuse, besides muppets, SS, and fraggles, puppets are dying! That Brian Henson puppet show lasted 8 episodes! I mean even if it was golden comedy, the sad truth is it would be canned before the 3rd episode!

 

[CensoredAlso]

I wonder if the show would have succeeded if it was only new characters, and lacked the Muppet name. If it didn't have any Muppet characters or the Muppet name in the title, people wouldn't be complaining about the lack of existing characters, but then it might be harder to get people interested.

I wonder if Disney would do a Muppet show with mostly new characters.

I think bringing in new characters is often a successful idea. It worked with Tiny Toones and Star Trek: TNG. But it worked because the writing was top notch (Well at least after TNG got past the first season, hehe).

 

[minor muppetz]

I think bringing in new characters is often a successful idea. It worked with Tiny Toones and Star Trek: TNG. But it worked because the writing was top notch (Well at least after TNG got past the first season, hehe).

Well, Tiny Toons was a different title than Looney Tunes. I don't remember thinking of it as being like Looney Tunes before seeing it.

Then again, Taz-Mania hardly had any new Looney Tunes characters besides Taz, and I really like that show. And outside of Taz-Mania I find the Tasmanian Devil overrated.

Remember, TMS evolved after 24 episodes, MT had 22, found its stride, and was canned. Nowadays potential doesn't matter, if it doesn't work in the first few episodes then say hello to the cancellation bear.

Makes me wonder, if one wants to create a new TV series, I wonder if they should write a full seasons worth of scripts first (let's say 24) with no intention of actually producing those episodes. Just writing the scripts, developing characters and such, and then start writing episodes with the intention to make (maybe produce some of those previous scripts if they fit the show once it's produced).

 

[Drtooth]

And, as has been mentioned previously, a lot of MT's direct pop-culture spoofs had too many appearances (Bay of PigsWatch, Deep Dish Nine, Seinfeld Babies) or shouldn't have even made the show.

Seinfeld Babies was a one time thing. And it was an example of them being brilliant with pop culture, as opposed to the Pig segments that ran on the same jokes about Randy and Andy being stupid. There's a lot of good they did with pop culture based segments, just not the pig based stuff.

It's a shame the series actually found its voice 2 or 3 episodes to the end. When they actually moved to behind the scenes plot drama, there was the potential for something even better than what the Muppet Show had to offer, in terms of backstage plotlines at least. I love TMS, but some episodes the celebrity backstage stuff was dodgy. The character development in Johnny Runs Away and Andie McDowell were some of the best things they could do with the characters. Too bad we didn't get any of that first season.

 

[muppetlover123]

I really loved MT it was a pretty good show!

I mean sure we lost some characters like Johnny and Sal, Seymour, Phill Van Nuter, Clifford etc. But TM11 and MMW proved that ANY CHARACTER can be recast! First off we had most of the classic characters recast like Scooter Rowlf and the EM thanks to the talented performers! In TM11, Afghan Hound, Droop, Link, Wayne and Wanda, Uncle Deadly and Marvin Suggs and more were all recast to have a line or two! Then in MMW we had Bobby Benson, Andy and Randy, The Flying Zucchini Brothers, and Pops were all recast! I really think it is possibly to bring back Johnny if we get Sal back which is possible! Clifford could possibly come back, because with Kevin's Sesame issues resolved maybe he would want to preform Clifford again, who knows? If not he should be able to be recast! Anything is possible

 

[rexcrk]

I never watched it when it was on TV, but this thread has definitely got me really interested in it. I just checked out the first episode on YouTube and I enjoyed it.

I'll admit I'm kind of biased towards "'90s Muppets" though, since that was when I was growing up. When I was growing up, the only Muppet tapes we owned were Muppet Christmas Carol, Muppet Classic Theater, and an "It's Not Easy Bein' Green" sing-along tape. I don't know why my parents never bought more Muppet stuff on tape to be honest lol, but because of that, I'll always have a nostalgic connection to Clifford (who hosted the sing-along tape along with Kermit) and even characters like Andy & Randy and the Elvises because of Classic Theater.

And of course Gonzo and Rizzo being in the spotlight.

If Disney released Muppets Tonight on DVD I would definitely buy it. Though I'm not very hopeful about that seeing as how we can't even get the rest of the original Muppet Show on DVD >___>

A lot of those new Muppets Tonight characters went on to become some of my favorites. I LOVE Bobo, and Pepe, and Johnny & Sal are great. And Dr. van Neuter, even though I'm really only familiar with him from MFS. I really miss when Kevin Clash and Brian Henson performed with the Muppets now.

 

[KremlingWhatnot]

1. We had lost a lot of the characters from the original show
2. It was trying to hard to be the original
and 3. There were recasts just starting to come, but not every character was recasted or the same.