Muppets.com relaunches with Disney XD

[TheJimHensonHour]

I can't find the new videos where are they?

they are on the main page when you pop the list of videos open on the right hand side of the player.

 

[Luke]

And the idea that they need to change to attract audiences just does not conform with what I've seen of reality.

In character terms i'd agree because its actually anything that has been inspired by the old stuff (VMX, DXD, Weezer, Muppet Show Live) that has actually had more critical success than the new "trying to be cool" stuff. I also think new viewers prefer Muppets in a group but they're not featured like that often enough for people to "get it".

In TV terms i'd say no because you could not put TMS on TV now and get kids to sit through it. Right or wrong they're now used to a much faster pace and shows very focused on just a few central characters. That doesn't mean they couldn't remake TMS but i think it'd need to be tighter while still faithful to the original, like these DXD sketches. If u had a 4 minute Wayne and Wanda dance number you'd lose the audience. Its also why i thought Next Muppet was the perfect vehicle to lure people into any new TMS as it would have been the Muppets, but in a modern premise that would have been fun.

 

[CensoredAlso]

In TV terms i'd say no because you could not put TMS on TV now and get kids to sit through it. Right or wrong they're now used to a much faster pace and shows very focused on just a few central characters. That doesn't mean they couldn't remake TMS but i think it'd need to be tighter while still faithful to the original, like these DXD sketches. If u had a 4 minute Wayne and Wanda dance number you'd lose the audience.

I think that's probably true of some kids. And it was probably true of kids years ago. But that doesn't mean we can simply say "Kids won't like this." It's just not the way the world actually is. Parents still buy their kids older material and kids still enjoy it. Experts keep claiming there's been this major change in kids' thinking and I just don't see the evidence.

Plus, even if it were true, changing yourself to conform to an audience does not often pay off. Many times the new audience isn't interested (it's very obvious when a show tries to change like that), and the original fans will be left upset. History has shown this time and again.

 

[dwayne1115]

Well i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that time has caught up with the Muppets. There was a time when we did not see much of the Muppets, and that really did two things. The first thing it did was made us true Muppet fans mad, and it also caused us to get mad (upset) at not only the Muppets, but the comapnys that where taking care of them. (JHC or Disney) The second thing it did was made the people who where not true die hard Muppets fans to kind of forget who the Muppets really are.
This gave he Muppets a lot of groud to cover, both with the die hard fans and the newier people to the Muppets. Right now i think Disney is doing a pretty good job at trying to Re intorduce the Muppets. That said there is always room for change, and I know us fans think that change for the Muppets most of the time is bad, but that is not true. Kermit is going to go through some big changes, somre for the good and some for the bad. It's just going to be like when Jim started working with Kermit, there are going to be growing pains. This does not mean we will hate everything kermit will do, but sometimes we will think that should have been done differently. We always have and always will thats what being a Muppet fan is all about.

 

[CensoredAlso]

That said there is always room for change, and I know us fans think that change for the Muppets most of the time is bad, but that is not true.

Again, I really don't mind change. It's just that there's a difference between further developing the character and changing it completely. But I think this is a very complicated debate that won't end any time soon, lol.

 

[dwayne1115]

Again, I really don't mind change. It's just that there's a difference between further developing the character and changing it completely. But I think this is a very complicated debate that won't end any time soon, lol.

I don't ethier i think some people on here are a little to set in there ways if ya know what i mean.

 

[frogboy4]

I think that's probably true of some kids. And it was probably true of kids years ago. But that doesn't mean we can simply say "Kids won't like this." It's just not the way the world actually is. Parents still buy their kids older material and kids still enjoy it. Experts keep claiming there's been this major change in kids' thinking and I just don't see the evidence.

Plus, even if it were true, changing yourself to conform to an audience does not often pay off. Many times the new audience isn't interested (it's very obvious when a show tries to change like that), and the original fans will be left upset. History has shown this time and again.

Personally I don't think kids' thinking has changed too much in itself either, but I do think the marketing and advertising world continually tries (in every market) to dumb down content to streamline sales. It's demographic focus marketing at its worst. It's always been around, but not like this. Content is secondary to the shiny wrapper and catchy theme song (downloadable for 99 cents on itunes, of course). I feel that the Muppets can play enough of this game while mocking it and staying true to what they're about. I feel that the new Muppets.com is a good example of the better way to do so. Kermit's Swamp Years is the unfortunate rout.

I also feel similar about the Muppet Babies cartoon, but it did serve a better purpose beyond its inherent limitations. I still hate it anytime I talk to someone under 25 about the Muppets and they start singing the Muppet Babies cartoon theme. I think Disney is helping to change that in strengthening the Muppets original puppet brand. By the way, didn’t Jim Henson plan on doing grown-up Muppet themed animation beyond what was done on Little Muppet Monsters? I forget where this is sourced? I think a tiny bit of this salesmanship and marketing hit even Jim in his final years.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't ethier i think some people on here are a little to set in there ways if ya know what i mean.

That's one side of the argument, yes. The other side is that just because something is new, doesn't mean it is working. And just because something is old, doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

I think it's been a good debate, but I guess it's off topic, so I'll be heading off.

But just one more thing, given the choice, I'll take Muppet Babies.

 

[Luke]

I think that's probably true of some kids. And it was probably true of kids years ago. But that doesn't mean we can simply say "Kids won't like this." It's just not the way the world actually is. Parents still buy their kids older material and kids still enjoy it. Experts keep claiming there's been this major change in kids' thinking and I just don't see the evidence.

Plus, even if it were true, changing yourself to conform to an audience does not often pay off. Many times the new audience isn't interested (it's very obvious when a show tries to change like that), and the original fans will be left upset. History has shown this time and again.

Sure i know that, and you know it, but these TV execs often just go on focus groups and company wide strategies and targets without understanding the actual brand they're dealing with at all. I agree that this "updating" of retro shows hasn't always worked out but there have been some positive examples and as long as someone is making a buck from doing it that way others will follow.

I agree about the debate being a complex one, and i don't even think the people in charge fully understand it or know how to deal with it - you notice Disney with all their resources, management experience and power have gone through years of very unsure Muppet times before we are even at this point where they've got Lylle Brier in place and seems to have some momentum with whatever they are throwing at the problem, actually possibly sticking and starting to build some kind of strategy to go forward. A lot of people said they were "taking their time" but i think the amount of people in top jobs at Muppet Holding Company that changed, and changed again shows there was just this lack of understanding about what to do with them. Although Henson were doing a good job after the buyback riding the retro wave at least Disney do want to try get things done to get the public as a whole back into the Muppets, and they should, its an evergreen property with no reason why it shouldn't do well - but yes, just sooooooo complex!

 

[Luke]

Personally I don't think kids' thinking has changed too much in itself either, but I do think the marketing and advertising world continually tries (in every market) to dumb down content to streamline sales. It's demographic focus marketing at its worst. It's always been around, but not like this. Content is secondary to the shiny wrapper and catchy theme song (downloadable for 99 cents on itunes, of course).

Yes exactly, its that the kids have been conditioned into it over time for business purposes. But you can't just put something else in front of them totally different because there isnt a company around in these recession type times that will take a risk on anything too far from the norm. And all the conditioning has been done for long enough now that our pre-teens have never known any different. Sad, very sad - especially as they do seem to like our old shows, albeit repackaged into a form they are more used to!