Muppet Villains: A Case Study

[Princeton]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I don’t think we’ve actually had an in depth discussion about the Muppet film/TV villains on a case by case so I thought ding that would be fun and incite some good discussion. First, some housekeeping stuff: I’ve only seen The Muppets 2011 once and don’t really feel qualified to comment on it, so if someone would like to discuss Tex Richman in detail, be my guest. Also, I won’t be discussing Kermit’s Swamp Years because everything about that movie was a joke, including the villain. And obviously I’ll be skipping the films that just flat out don’t have villains.

Doc Hopper (The Muppet Movie) When I first saw the film at a very young age, Hopper’s motive seemed ridiculous to me, especially the lengths he went to. Of course as an adult I realize that was not only the point but also what makes him such a great villain. Best of all, even after Kermit pours his heart out to him in a way that would make even the coldest heart melt, Hopper still remains unmoved.

Nicky Holiday (Great Muppet Caper) This is a movie I had a block against for many years but I now realize that Charles Grodin’s performance is pretty brilliant: a perfect combination of over-the-top acting, genuine emotion and true villainy.

Ma Gorg (Fraggle Rock) Yes, you heard that right. Ma, not Pa, is the villain and I’ll explain why. Pa is a blowhard who delegates power over to anyone else and doesn’t have a menacing bone in his body. But I think it’s very clear that Ma, unlike Pa, doesn’t have trouble ordering Junior to thump Fraggles: she’ll do it herself and with absolute relish. And also unlike Pa, she can’t be turned by the Fraggles even when they show empathy towards the Gorgs (examples of this would the episodes Mirror and The Gorg Who Would Be King).

BP Richfield (Dinosaurs) While not the best Muppet villain of all time, I would say with certainty he’s the best television villain of all time. His entire arc in the Endangered Species episode is an act of pure calculated evil and of course in the final episode he caused the Ice Age (many would say unwittingly but I think there’s an argument to be made otherwise). And I swear Sherman Hemsley never got his due for his vocal performance; he’s just wonderful.

Long John Silver (Muppet Treasure Island) I think this is probably my favorite film portrayal of this character but not for the reason you may think. Yes, I love Tim Curry but c’mon folks, Beauty and the Beast Christmas? Scary Movie 2? It’s not like the guy can do no wrong. No, I like this portrayal because it balances the villainy with his affection for Jim much more equally.

Ed Singer (Muppets from Space) There’s a lot of Doc Hopper in Ed: they both have rather odd motives but still go to such lengths to get them. And of course the whole thing is grounded completely by Jeffrey Tambor playing it absolutely straight.

Rachel Bitterman (IAVMMXM) And here we have the most despicable Muppet movie villain of all time. Bitterman has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever and just adds to the unnecessary glum tone of the film.

Wicked Witch of the West (Muppet Wizard of Oz) Yes, I know this is Piggy playing a role (or is it?*) but this is actually a really successful portrayal of this character while still maintaining the Muppet wackiness. And plus, we get our first Muppet villain song since 1996 (although Jacobson makes absolutely no attempt to make her sound feminine. I know Frank Oz had the least versatility in terms of the voices he could do but when Frank performed Piggy, you never doubted she was a female character).

Constantine and Dominic (Muppets Most Wanted) If we’re excluding Piggy as WWW and Tex, I think C&D were a happy return to the classic Muppet villain: fully aware of the zany nature of the film but you never doubted that there was real menace underneath.

*Again guys, let’s please be honest with ourselves and I’m being 100% serious now. Miss Piggy has been a villain since 1976 and as Muppet fans I think we finally need to own this.

 

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

Again guys, let’s please be honest with ourselves and I’m being 100% serious now. Miss Piggy has been a villain since 1976 and as Muppet fans I think we finally need to own this.

Hmm. I guess she kind of has been antagonistic in a lot of things she's in, not quite everything, but a lot.
You ever notice how when Frank was playing her, she often got a similar treatment that villains get in a lot of movies and TV? Life constantly threw things at her, and she was constantly the butt of jokes of everyone's jokes. Now, it's like the jokes are still there (like the overused fat/bacon jokes), but bad things seem to rarely happen to her, even when she's in the wrong.

 

[Old Thunder]

#AbusedByAPig #UltimateVillain #BringPiggyJustice

 

[Princeton]

Bump

 

[D'Snowth]

I think when you get right down to it, both Doc Hopper and Rachel Bitterman are perhaps two of the most hardcore villains, not just in Muppet movies, but in movies, period, and for the exact reasons mentioned. In the case of Hopper, he's one of the few cinematic villains who subverts the notion that you can appeal to somebody's better nature, and can get them to turn over a new leaf . . . but he doesn't; clearly, his is a heart of pure stone, and you would actually expect him to finally call off his entire scheme after Kermit's moving speech . . . but he doesn't, and orders his men to kill Kermit anyway. Slightly off-topic, but this is why the folks at Pixar did the same thing with Lotso in TOY STORY 3: they knew having him turn over a new leaf and redeem himself after Woody and Buzz risk their lives to save him would have been too cliched and predictable. Like with Doc Hopper, it's actually a pretty gutsy move in terms of writing - especially for a family movie - since convictions usually tell us that good always triumphs over evil, and that the bad guys can always redeem themselves. Granted, Hopper and his gang are still defeated, in a sense, when giant Animal scares them away.

As for Rachel Bitterman, she was just a straight-up cold and calculating businesswoman, driven by greed and power, and likewise, never redeems herself. In addition to that, being a woman, she also uses her allure to seduce Pepe over to her side, and is actually successful at it, given what a little horn dog he is for just about anything female, but she also had no qualms about screwing him over behind his back either. Unlike, say, Nicky Holiday, who did actually have genuine reservations about having to use Piggy as a pawn in his scheme because he cared about her too much.

 

[jobi71]

I know this thread is more about the characters, but I think it a big asset to Doc Hopper and Rachel and Nicky that they are all played by amazing actors, who though they excel in comedy can also do drama very well. I had the pleasure to see Charles Durning twice on stage once in the Gin Game opposite Julie Harris and once as Big Daddy in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof opposite Kathleen Turner, Polly Holliday, Daniel Hugh Kelly, Thomas Hill and Debra Jo Rupp.

I am going to push back a bit on the Miss Piggy is a villain. I am going to toss out the 2015 series because most of it was tone deaf, and by the time they figured out what to do (Mindy Kaling, Jack White and ok an early one with Ed Helms) it was cancelled. I agree with Pig's Laundry that she was more of an antagonist than villain. She was determined to be a star and she did have occasional schemes, but I think they came from insecurity rather than out right malice. I think when the Muppet Show tried to have real villains - Fleet Scribbler and J.P. Grosse they found they just didn't work too well.

 

[Princeton]

I think when you get right down to it, both Doc Hopper and Rachel Bitterman are perhaps two of the most hardcore villains, not just in Muppet movies, but in movies, period, and for the exact reasons mentioned.

Agree with all that, only to add that unlike Hopper, you have to go a long way to like Bitterman. I really feel like at least in the first third of TMM, Hopper does have humor and a slight likability factor.

I am going to push back a bit on the Miss Piggy is a villain. I am going to toss out the 2015 series because most of it was tone deaf, and by the time they figured out what to do (Mindy Kaling, Jack White and ok an early one with Ed Helms) it was cancelled.

See, I see the 2015 series and the two Bobin films as the exception to the rule. With those projects, we definitely saw much more compassion and humility from Piggy; it was a definite crack in the facade. I think that's the main reason I was so disappointed to see that series end; after so many years of her being evil, I wanted them to keep up the good work.