Muppet Canon/Chronology/Timeline

[CensoredAlso]

i love MCC. i honestly think it's one of their best movies

Yeah like I said a lot of fans do like it. I just personally wouldn't buy it if I had a choice between it and one of the original films. That's all.

 

[Drtooth]

This doesn't really have to do with what we were talking about before but when I was at Wal-Mart I bought The Muppet Christmas Carol and I know it's not that great. I was thinking I should just return it, I haven't opened it yet. Is it worth saving?

MCC is a great movie for what it is... beautifully executed on every count EXCEPT Muppet saturation. It's not by any means a bad movie because of that, not even a bad Muppet Movie... the small problem is the experimental nature of the post-Henson era, and where the Muppets come in. Something I feel they did better with MTI in creating new Muppet pirates, and adding that little running gag of the pirate tourists... it's a far more Muppety atmosphere and they had a LOT more fun with it. I always suggest MTI over MCC... MTI is probably my second or third favorite post Henson movie (after the new one of course)...

Though... MCC is very good at telling the classic story. Just, I'm kinda closer to the Mickey Mouse and Mr. Magoo one. Probably nostalgically (which I try very hard not to be fooled by). I was around 11 when MCC came out... I was very young watching Mickey and Magoo on VHS tapes.

 

[Frogpuppeteer]

The truth is It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie should be in the timeline,

In this movie though they never outright come out and say The Muppet show is still on..just that they do occasional Performances and even thats not spelled out

 

[Muppet fan 123]

In this movie though they never outright come out and say The Muppet show is still on..just that they do occasional Performances and even thats not spelled out

But also when Kermit wishes he'd never been born he sees a Doc Hopper FrogLeg store

 

[Frogpuppeteer]

But also when Kermit wishes he'd never been born he sees a Doc Hopper FrogLeg store

yea but that's a lose reference to the movie.... and in VMX the Muppet theater is also in NYC i believe not Hollywood

 

[beaker]

This doesn't really have to do with what we were talking about before but when I was at Wal-Mart I bought The Muppet Christmas Carol and I know it's not that great. I was thinking I should just return it, I haven't opened it yet. Is it worth saving?

It's one of my least favorites, in that it just feels so dull and depressing. I saw MTI opening day a few years later, and again I was just bored. Strangely I prefer MFS over these two

 

[MWoO]

But also when Kermit wishes he'd never been born he sees a Doc Hopper FrogLeg store

AVMMC, just like any muppet movie, is it's own thing. For one, it seems that "The Muppet Show" doesn't really exist in that continuity, at least not as a tv show. It seems to exist as just a stage show with no cameras. Also it seems that the muppets aren't exactly famous in that special, or at least not to the extent that they were in "The Muppets". The Doc Hopper thing is a reference to TMM, but that doesn't mean the two movies follow each other exactly.

To me, AVMMC seems to be an extension of the events of TMS, but not an extention of the "real" muppets. It's an alternate universe in which the muppets did a stage show, and nothing else, and have been doing their stage show for some time now. The Muppets seems to be an alternate reality in which the muppets met in a manor similar to the events of TMM, did a TV show called the muppet show, which led to TMM, GMC, and MTM, but their careers ended in the late 80's (meaning the MCC, MTI, MFS, and any other post Jim Henson project doesn't exist in this reality).

In both movies the muppets are actors in a movie playing themselves. Neither movie is "real" or "history" which is why both can exist.

As for the confusion about the Kermit and Piggy being married thing, it seems that the marriage scene in MTM was real. Now, by that I mean the scene was part of the play within the movie, but the real Piggy got a real minister to play the part of the minister in the play within the movie. It's confusing, but not if you rename Kermit and Piggy's characters in the movie. For example, let's put an A at the end of the characters in the movie. So, KErmit plays Kermit A in MTM and Piggy plays Piggy A in MTM. Kermit A and Piggy A are the leads in the play. In the play, Kermit A and Piggy A are getting married. But, during the scene Kermit turns to Piggy (outside of the movie) and says "I thought Gonzo was going to play the minister". Piggy laughs, and they continue with the scene in the movie. Now, the scene in the movie is Kermit A and Piggy A getting married, but since it is a real minister Kermit and Piggy (the actors making a movie, not a play) end up actually getting married.

So....the "real" Kermit was tricked into getting married by the "real" Piggy while making the movie Muppets Take Manhattan because they filmed a scene in the movie in which the characters get married during a play. In The Muppets, we see that they were in fact married, but then separated because Kermit was upset that he was tricked into marriage during the making of a movie. To me, this is perfect because it explains how they went from being married as characters in the late 80's to all of a sudden being indifferent to each other after Jim Henson's death in the 90's. Of the course, The Muppets is still just a movie in and of itself, but just like all of the movies, it seems the Kermit and Piggy relationship bits remain true (ie, Kermit and Piggy the actors fighting in GMC).

 

[zoebell]

wait, so, before jim died it had been resolved that kermit and piggy really were married? their real selves, i mean? did they acknowledge that in interviews or something? because i know that kermit did cop to the relationship itself around the mid-80s, or basically after they were married onscreen.

but had jim and frank sort of decided that even though he'd been tricked, kermit and piggy really were married due to the movie? and that kermit was in denial but it had happened?

 

[CensoredAlso]

wait, so, before jim died it had been resolved that kermit and piggy really were married?

Well, Piggy does call Kermit "hubby" during their 30th anniversary special. For me that's always been enough, hehe.

 

[zoebell]

i think it is possible that in jim's mind, they basically had gotten married- only because after that movie he had kermit more or less finally cop to the relationship being real in the first place. in interviews and everything

when they hosted nightline, miss piggy shows up to ask him when he's "coming home" and he just says after the show, and that he'll be there. so it's kind of a subtle acknowledgment of them being a couple. and of course, the GMA interview where they get into the whole conversation about sleeping together, and he says something about her being an interesting sight in lingerie, lol. i would still kill to actually see that interview, because the transcript is hilarious.

but all of that is acknowledgment of them as a couple, from both of them, not just piggy, and that started after MTM, so i think jim had decided that movie meant they basically had gotten married, even if kermit was in denial