It's a Great Day to Be a Muppet Fan!

[frogboy4]

I liked MFS and KSY..I did'nt love them, but I do rewatch them, un-like OZ or A Depressing X-Mas.
I have a question on the growing under the stairs thingie for Gonzo.. I can't find anything about it even on muppet wiki. Is it from a certain episode?

I'm the opposite of that I guess, but we know that already.

I made that stairs thing up. I thought you knew that. Eeek. I'm sorry. That's one of the rationalizations my mind made up for Gonzo's origin. I personally would like to see Gonzo's origins chronicled in completely different ways in several short stories. I think that would be amusing:

My initial idea had a mold cluster evolve into Gonzo after being hit from a bolt of light from space (kind of like Little Shop of Horrors). This mold would have been underneath the stairs or outside of the Muppet Theater. A young Kermit (in a Scooter-like position at the time) notices the young weirdo and permits him to tend to the chicken coop thus rising over the years into the Great Gonzo we know today. After that story a completely different one would find his origins in Muppet Labs, FedEx delivered from Bombay and being wished into existence by Uncle Deadly to have something weirder than him as company. See, I just like to have all the possibilities out there. But that's me.

__________ _________​

Back to topic, as has been mentioned by heralde - Jim Henson canceled the Muppet Show himself to pursue other projects. I hated that he married off Kermit & Piggy (real or fake) in MTM because to me it was like 'jumping the shark'. While I don’t believe he would approve many of the projects after his death he didn’t appear to have the type of reverence we do for the characters. To him they were the facilitators of comedy, storytelling and kick-a musical numbers. My brain still goes back to his idea of making a hand drawn animated theatrical motion picture of the adult Muppet characters utilizing the Disney animation team. I can see fans fall on both sides of the fence with that idea. I'm just glad the Muppets are tapping back into their roots.

 

[wwfpooh]

While I don’t believe he would approve many of the projects after his death he didn’t appear to have the type of reverence we do for the characters.

Like many an artist, Jim probably was unsure about some of his work, whereas most us praise a lot of it.

To him they were the facilitators of comedy, storytelling and kick-a musical numbers.

To us, they're that and more.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I hated that he married off Kermit & Piggy (real or fake) in MTM because to me it was like 'jumping the shark'.

I guess that's where the Muppet chronology ends for me personally, but in a more positive way. All pov.

 

[wwfpooh]

I guess that's where the Muppet chronology ends for me personally, but in a more positive way.

Same, considering it finally gets the frog to commit & gets the pig to have what she's always wanted.

 

[Super Scooter]

Back to topic, as has been mentioned by heralde - Jim Henson canceled the Muppet Show himself to pursue other projects. I hated that he married off Kermit & Piggy (real or fake) in MTM because to me it was like 'jumping the shark'. While I don’t believe he would approve many of the projects after his death he didn’t appear to have the type of reverence we do for the characters. To him they were the facilitators of comedy, storytelling and kick-a musical numbers. My brain still goes back to his idea of making a hand drawn animated theatrical motion picture of the adult Muppet characters utilizing the Disney animation team. I can see fans fall on both sides of the fence with that idea. I'm just glad the Muppets are tapping back into their roots.

That's a good point. Frank Oz always mentions how Jim didn't really care about the puppets as much as he cared about entertaining people... or, as Kermit would put it, "singing and dancing and making people happy." I'm sure he cared about keeping the characters true to themselves, he was that way even with the Land of Gorch. But, as you say, the characters were the facilitators of comedy, storytelling, and music. A means to an end when he first started that became so much more.

 

[wwfpooh]

A means to an end when he first started that became so much more.

Agreed and now, we wish to preserve what The Muppets have since become to many a Muppet fan.

 

[Redsonga]

I'm the opposite of that I guess, but we know that already.

I made that stairs thing up. I thought you knew that. Eeek. I'm sorry. That's one of the rationalizations my mind made up for Gonzo's origin. I personally would like to see Gonzo's origins chronicled in completely different ways in several short stories. I think that would be amusing:

My initial idea had a mold cluster evolve into Gonzo after being hit from a bolt of light from space (kind of like Little Shop of Horrors). This mold would have been underneath the stairs or outside of the Muppet Theater. A young Kermit (in a Scooter-like position at the time) notices the young weirdo and permits him to tend to the chicken coop thus rising over the years into the Great Gonzo we know today. After that story a completely different one would find his origins in Muppet Labs, FedEx delivered from Bombay and being wished into existence by Uncle Deadly to have something weirder than him as company. See, I just like to have all the possibilities out there. But that's me.

. While I don’t believe he would approve many of the projects after his death he didn’t appear to have the type of reverence we do for the characters. To him they were the facilitators of comedy, storytelling and kick-a musical numbers.

I am gullible, very ^.^. If you make an idea sound real I go looking for it *lol*
But I disagree with that idea that about Mr. Henson, at least in all his muppets..I think that of all his work, Fraggle Rock was the one that I think, seemed to mean just as much in its deeper meaning to him as it did (does) to we fans, maybe even more.

It might just be my fraggle fandom talking but I felt that its message of getting along together and music having magic was as close to the heart of him as a person as anything else I ever saw him do...

FR might be looked down upon as not being as 'mature' as the other shows, but I think that is only at first glance, and its maturity is actually a deep rooted undertone to all the 'fun and silly' parts. Sort of like Mr Henson himself...But that's just this one little fans POV on the matter *hides*

 

[frogboy4]

Here's a little dilemma.

I'm in total agreement with this thread in that now is a great time to be a Muppet fan, but there's a couple of "official sources" over at the Newsflash forum reporting trouble with the DC ratings and rumored axing of Segel's Muppet film. The wet blanket posters of Muppetdom rear their heads again. I'm not surprised. This usually happens when things start percolating for the Muppets and honestly some of it is warranted by a spotty track record.

Over the years inside information has lead us down a lot of empty Fraggle holes. Much of this information has been anonymously posted so there isn't even a track record of accuracy in statements. I tend to dismiss even internal rumors because nobody really knows what's happening except the very top executives. That's the way of most corporations (with the exception of the smarter IT guys - they know everything). I tend to go with press statements and what is official. Everything else is gossip and speculation (that is fun, yet unreliable).

Grrr. The naysayers.

This does put me in a speculative mood. Could Disney be waiting to see the performance of second DC project and election special before funding the Segal picture? I sincerely don't believe the first DC specials luke-warm ratings has any relevance seeing how the time slot was yanked about and barely promoted at the last minute. I see Disney's confidence in the Muppets. Is there anything to state otherwise?

There will always be anonymous web folk typing out everything from project cancellation to (and I've read this a few times) sticking them in a drawer and setting fire to it! I choose to believe in the viability of the characters. That doesn't make me a Pollyanna or a brainless fan cheerleader. I see as the same sort of positive thinking Jim had. And I must note that this nicely dressed 20-something dude walked right by apartment yesterday and he had a brand new bright green Kermit satchel bag around his shoulder! That speaks more to me than any anonymous source charting Disney Channel figures.

What are your thoughs?

 

[Redsonga]

There will always be anonymous web folk typing out everything from project cancellation to (and I've read this a few times) sticking them in a drawer and setting fire to it! I choose to believe in the viability of the characters.

I might talk about how I'm not 100% sure if an movie will do well, but I will never be one of those people is all I can say ! I never wish or talk about things being canceled ether..I dunno, I don't want to jinx anything . Debate and worry is one thing, but thinking is sure to do badly and there is no way to make it do well, and everything is beyond help and doomed for the muppets is just crazy Boober talk IMHO -.-.

The trouble is that the people in control of saying if a show is doing well or not often:
1) Put the show they are not sure about on at a weird time or don't tell hardly anyone about it and
2) Base their idea of doing well on a tiny group of viewers and make the show for them, forgetting about the bigger group of fans. So if it does badly with the tiny group they think it is awful, but if they had made it for the bigger group that would have watched maybe it would have been better to everyone ....

It's a hard place to be in by I hope of all things Disney doesn't base weather or not their going to make a new muppet movie on Studio DC -.-. I would think that they of all people can see it is not the muppets better work...
Why not run a day long showing of all the classic muppet movies and then make up their minds based on what comes of that?

 

[frogboy4]

I am gullible, very ^.^. If you make an idea sound real I go looking for it *lol*
But I disagree with that idea that about Mr. Henson, at least in all his muppets..I think that of all his work, Fraggle Rock was the one that I think, seemed to mean just as much in its deeper meaning to him as it did (does) to we fans, maybe even more.

It might just be my fraggle fandom talking but I felt that its message of getting along together and music having magic was as close to the heart of him as a person as anything else I ever saw him do...

FR might be looked down upon as not being as 'mature' as the other shows, but I think that is only at first glance, and its maturity is actually a deep rooted undertone to all the 'fun and silly' parts. Sort of like Mr Henson himself...But that's just this one little fans POV on the matter *hides*

I actually like these Gonzo origin story ideas so much that I'm thinking of making my own little mini comic of them. I really don't need another project, but you know - Muppet energy's got to go somewhere! I am an artist so handling both parts wouldn't be too difficult (sample art of what one of my wijits looks like). I'll probably stuff this bit in a file folder for a while.

There is an old Spinney story of his helping Jim with an Ernie and Bert sketch years back. Jim slightly kicked the Ernie puppet out of his path in a way Caroll found thoughtless. This resulted in Caroll apologizing to Ernie which Jim found very odd. He wasn't as precious with the puppets as he was the message, comedy etc.

I remember defending my Fraggle Rock lunchbox in the fourth grade. I loved it so and still have it! Fraggles tend to repel the more cynical minded. I feel bad for anyone that can't hear the Fraggle message. Even Boober could hear that (he's my favorite). They have a sweetness that I never want to lose.