Is Frozen overrated?

[jvcarroll]

Is it just me, or is this forum being consumed by the most negative elements of the internet? I'm just about done with this place. I've said it before, but there's really nothing more for me here anymore. It's just a bunch of cynical folk who'd rather b***h about stuff than actually create anything or inspire anybody.

Once upon a time I rebranded Muppet Central, created graphics for this place, spent a period of time as a moderator and contributed to the content. Now it's just a forum for the angry segment of Muppet fans and it has a way of infecting others with its negativity. I've seen it happen to so many members and even myself at times. I really do think it's time to go.

Is Frozen Overrated? Yeah. Probably. But being on this forum these days certainly is.

 

[Oscarfan]

I'm not sure if you're joking, but that was a Lady Gaga promotion with Muppets thrown in it at the last minute. Either way, I choose to focus on the future rather than be cynical about the past.

Yeah, it was a joke.

Is it just me, or is this forum being consumed by the most negative elements of the internet? I'm just about done with this place. I've said it before, but there's really nothing more for me here anymore. It's just a bunch of cynical folk who'd rather b***h about stuff than actually create anything or inspire anybody.

Once upon a time I rebranded Muppet Central, created graphics for this place, spent a period of time as a moderator and contributed to the content. Now it's just a forum for the angry segment of Muppet fans and it has a way of infecting others with its negativity. I've seen it happen to so many members and even myself at times. I really do think it's time to go.

Is Frozen Overrated? Yeah. Probably. But being on this forum these days certainly is.

I completely agree. I'll admit I'll guilty to being negative to some members about being negative about things. I frankly kind of prefer the TP forum, because negative opinions are tread with discussion, not with anger. I'm tired of the fans who don't think realistically about things.

 

[jvcarroll]

Yeah, it was a joke.

I completely agree. I'll admit I'll guilty to being negative to some members about being negative about things. I frankly kind of prefer the TP forum, because negative opinions are tread with discussion, not with anger. I'm tired of the fans who don't think realistically about things.

Ditto! There are more Muppet fans on Facebook than here. It just gets kind of strange. MMW's definitely disappointing numbers negatively exaggerated while Frozen's stellar numbers are undermined by griping. There's so much to like about both films, imperfect as both are.

I don't even understand the criticism of Frozen having a making-of primetime special seeing as it's the 5th highest grossing film of all-time - worldwide, it contained two strong female protagonists and the males were pretty much window dressing. Ha! In fact, I find that inspiring in so many ways!

Would Frozen my my top 10 films? Nope. But I like it. And if one big budget film deserves such praise, it'd be this one.

 

[Oscarfan]

I enjoyed Frozen, but Tumblr is makes me dislike it (and makes me dislike Tumblr). So many posts about it; it's nuts.

I will say though, even though I don't watch OUAT, I'm going to assume that they're jumpin' the ol' shark by adding the Frozen cast.

 

[mr3urious]

I don't even understand the criticism of Frozen having a making-of primetime special seeing as it's the 5th highest grossing film of all-time - worldwide, it contained two strong female protagonists and the males were pretty much window dressing. Ha! In fact, I find that inspiring in so many ways!

At least it's not a making of Planes special.

 

[jvcarroll]

I enjoyed Frozen, but Tumblr is makes me dislike it (and makes me dislike Tumblr). So many posts about it; it's nuts.

I will say though, even though I don't watch OUAT, I'm going to assume that they're jumpin' the ol' shark by adding the Frozen cast.

Oh OUAT jumped the shark by its very being. The source material, from what I've heard, is kind of amazing. The show itself is really too goofy for me.

I also think the Frozen overexposure (and that's kind of what all of this is) was caused by the lack of Pixar offering this year. Looking at the domestic box office for Dragons 2 makes me think they dodged a bullet by skipping a release this year. One of the most incredible things is how few new releases there are this weekend. Anyway, Big Hero 6 should eclipse Frozen next month. It really looks great.

 

[jvcarroll]

At least it's not a making of Planes special.

I almost forgot about Planes. I guess that was Disney's summer offering. Hmmf. No comment.

 

[Drtooth]

I also think the Frozen overexposure (and that's kind of what all of this is) was caused by the lack of Pixar offering this year. Looking at the domestic box office for Dragons 2 makes me think they dodged a bullet by skipping a release this year. One of the most incredible things is how few new releases there are this weekend. Anyway, Big Hero 6 should eclipse Frozen next month. It really looks great.

Pixar's lack of an offering was purely due to internal politics related to The Good Dinosaur, not unlike what happened with Brave. Quote Pixar Wiki:

In August 2013, Blue Sky Disney reported that due to story problems, the director and producer had been removed from the film.[4] According to the report, the studio was looking for a new director who would put the film back on track, while still attempting to release the film in 2014.[15] Other sites also noted the Peterson's absence at D23 Expo, where Sohn and producer Denise Ream presented footage from the film.[16][17] A few days later, Ed Catmull, Pixar's president, confirmed to Los Angeles Times, saying: "All directors get really deep in their film. Sometimes you just need a different perspective to get the idea out. Sometimes directors ... are so deeply embedded in their ideas it actually takes someone else to finish it up."[18] Peterson, who is remaining at Pixar, moved on to another project he is developing, while Ream replaced Walker, who left to work on Tomorrowland. According to Catmull, the release date for the film is unchanged. Until the studio finds a replacement, John Lasseter, Lee Unkrich, Mark Andrews and Sohn are working on various sections of the film.[18]

On December 22, 2011, Disney shared upcoming release dates for its films. A mysterious film titled Frozen rested on the date of November 27, 2013, which led many to believe that The Good Dinosaur, originally scheduled for release on that date, now had the title of Frozen. However, Peter Sciretta of /Film confirmed with Disney that Frozen was not a Pixar film. Further, Bleeding Cool received tips that Frozen is actually an adaptation of the long-dormant Snow Queen Disney animated film.[19] Later, Pixar announced that it would be released on May 30th, 2014.[20] On September 18, 2013, it was announced that Pixar had pushed back the release date from May 30, 2014, to November 25, 2015 in order to 'give the film some more time'.[21][22][23] This, in turn, will bring Pixar's streak of consecutive annual releases to an end, a streak started with Cars in 2006 and ended with Monsters University in 2013.

By August 2014, John Lasseter, Lee Unkrich, Mark Andrews, and original project co-director Pete Sohn had reworked the project to the point the felt is was ready to go ahead. Voice actor John Lithgow said that he would be completely re-recording his whole part by September 2014. Lithgow said, "They have now dismantled it [the movie] and completely reimagined it, and it is a fantastic new story."[24] Lithgow confirmed that Frances McDormand is still a cast member. The fate of the rest of the cast is currently unknown.

I have absolutely lost any optimism for that project and just a smidge of empathy for Pixar with that debacle. Planes 2 was an obvious stop gap replacement, tossed off in July to get a theatrical animated film in the summer. The movie may have underperformed, but the thing was a DTV and destined not to make that much money but still be considered profitable. Frozen's success had nothing to do with either film. It may have doomed family films that weren't Lego or that piece of Squirrel Poop (that was a very lucky movie), but certainly had no hand in a subpar kiddy flick not performing and another one being bumped.

And again that wasn't a Muppet Show. It was a Gaga special with the Muppets thrown in at the last minute. An actual, legit one-off Muppet Show could be fun and wouldn't require a gimmick - just a guest star or two.

The special's rushed together pacing and odd hour and a half format confirm that. Considering her last album didn't do well and MMW didn't make the complete goldmine that Muppet films characteristically don't make (with the exception of the first two films and The Muppets), I'd want to say that was a curse or something. But branding the two together had an unfortunate effect of Pop Culture Freshness Date syndrome. When we absolutely love a celebrity until some snarky web post tells you not to. That was what happened with Gaga, and I'm going to assume Gervais in MMW. I give Disney all the credit in the world for trying that, but they really should have done a full fledged, well thought out, project instead. Hopefully we'll see one next year.

 

[Dominicboo1]

I did say "with known exceptions." That Home on the Range thing had one that looked like a traditional Disney cartoon shorts character, for another exception to the rule.

While the men certainly vary, there hasn't been a not hideous looking female villain since Maleficent (pre-dragon). Well, YMMV on the one from Tangled. I don't see why they all have to look like gross old crones, and in the case of Ursula, a morbidly obese drag queen (I'm sure we all have enough knowledge of Disney movies to know she was based on one). I swear that Yzma was yet another example of how ENG brutally parodied Disney movie tropes for that reason alone.

I'm sure if they made the Snow Queen movie they were going to make, she'd be all long pointy nosed, long pointy chinned, hair shaped like icicles...



Whatever anyone thinks of the quality of these two films, that's exactly what held back Princess and the Frog and Tangled. Especially since Princess and The Frog opened against Chipmunks 2 (you're boy audience strictly went there), and DOUBLE especially for Tangled because the male demographic they wanted was the reason the film was mismarketed... and how it almost was a terrible Shrek knockoff. I don't know what the heck got boys interested in Frozen (probably the Snowman), but whatever they did, keep it up.



Let's face it. Male writers struggle with female leads because anything you can do to them will get someone offended. Writers are in perpetual fear of angry letters and looking like a jerk that they make flat tropes that tend to tick everyone off anyway. So character flaws are out, causing the same action girl that also is a negative stereotype for some reason. Yet, I have to Godwin's Law here with Twilight... If a guy wrote the character of Bella, there would probably get death threats for daring to write a weak character that loves being in an abusive relationship. But tweenage girls gobbled her up and called her a hero because a woman wrote that. It's a bad role model and character regardless of who wrote it, of course. I just don't see why Wonder Woman gets so much love/hate and no one's ripping that character. Then again, WW was created by a bondage freak.

Getting off track... but other than that example, I think women need to make their own characters. Sure, there are those who say that and look like jerks, but women get the subtleties that only women understand that men would glaze over. Not to mention that we should always have more cartoon/comic artists that are women. There is some great stuff out there, just not enough. We need more Sally Cruikshanks and Natasha Allegries out there. I love to see all kinds creating animated/illustrated masterpieces out there.

What about Helga Sinclair from Atlantis? Granted she's a secondary villain, but still is evil!

 

[jvcarroll]

Pixar's lack of an offering was purely due to internal politics related to The Good Dinosaur, not unlike what happened with Brave. Quote Pixar Wiki:



I have absolutely lost any optimism for that project and just a smidge of empathy for Pixar with that debacle. Planes 2 was an obvious stop gap replacement, tossed off in July to get a theatrical animated film in the summer. The movie may have underperformed, but the thing was a DTV and destined not to make that much money but still be considered profitable. Frozen's success had nothing to do with either film. It may have doomed family films that weren't Lego or that piece of Squirrel Poop (that was a very lucky movie), but certainly had no hand in a subpar kiddy flick not performing and another one being bumped.




The special's rushed together pacing and odd hour and a half format confirm that. Considering her last album didn't do well and MMW didn't make the complete goldmine that Muppet films characteristically don't make (with the exception of the first two films and The Muppets), I'd want to say that was a curse or something. But branding the two together had an unfortunate effect of Pop Culture Freshness Date syndrome. When we absolutely love a celebrity until some snarky web post tells you not to. That was what happened with Gaga, and I'm going to assume Gervais in MMW. I give Disney all the credit in the world for trying that, but they really should have done a full fledged, well thought out, project instead. Hopefully we'll see one next year.

Um, yeah. I know all about the Good Dinosaur. That's not the point I was making. However let's not forget Ratatouille had story problems too.

I agree the Muppets should have a full-fledged Muppet Show special. That's it. Just a classic show with a guest star (and maybe an additional cameo or two) with musical numbers and backstage mayhem. There's no need for writing letters to Santa or to celebrate Thanksgiving. Just fun!