In Defense of the TV Films

[Princeton]

I’m speaking, of course, of It’s a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, Muppets Wizard of Oz, and Letters to Santa. These TV films have gotten a lot of hate, and I think it’s time for someone to put them in perspective. They were made to try to put the Muppets back in the public eye and keep them there until it was time for another theatrical Muppet film. Naturally, these three TV films were not going to be as good as the theatrical films from the 80’s and 90’s, and frankly they don’t try to be. It was the fans that had (and continue to hold) these expectations, rather unfairly. Personally, I think that if you go into watching these three TV films without holding them up on a pedestal they don’t deserve to be on, they remain enjoyable and still function successfully on their own as Muppet films.

 

[D'Snowth]

You forgot KSY, not to mention LTS was a special, not a film.

I agree though, it seems as if the TV movies are somehow not considered "canon", if there is any kind of canon... even in-universe of THE MUPPETS (2011), the TV movies somehow don't seem to even exist, everybody in the movie acts like the Muppets haven't even been in the public eye at all since MFS (and the production notes make mention of this as well).

As I've said about a million-and-fifty-six-hundred times, I honestly don't see the hate that either KSY or MWoO always get... HOWEVER, I don't see the appeal of IAVMMCM, as I've said before, that one had all the charm of a badfic written by an emo fanfic author who crawled out of a manic depressive funk, decided to write a parody of IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE with the Muppets, then sell it as a screenplay.

Other than that, both KSY and MWoO are enjoyable: what I like about KSY was it didn't have just a tremendous amount of scope to it - it almost seemed more like a film school 101 project, and for an aspiring puppeteer growing up, watching it seemed like something that I could very well do in the future. MWoO was an interesting intepretation in that it tried to stay truer to the original OZ novels by L. Frank Baum, rather than try and remake the 1939 MGM movie, and of course, it had all the Muppet twists we come to expect.

But again, I agree, if there's one thing that the TV movies did, it was attempt to remind people the Muppets exist, because let's face it, EM.TV was on the verge of collapsing, and Disney was hardly doing a thing with them until recently... somethings HAD to be done.

 

[Princeton]

You forgot KSY, not to mention LTS was a special, not a film.
As I've said about a million-and-fifty-six-hundred times, I honestly don't see the hate that either KSY or MWoO always get... HOWEVER, I don't see the appeal of IAVMMCM, as I've said before, that one had all the charm of a badfic written by an emo fanfic author who crawled out of a manic depressive funk, decided to write a parody of IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE with the Muppets, then sell it as a screenplay.

KSY was technically a direct-to-video release, so I didn't really forget it.

IAVMMCM doesn't bother me as a Muppet film; it bothers me as a Christmas film. I'm very sensitive about Christmas movies/specials being overly dark or glum. The one saving grace of IAVMMCM is how Fozzie was used. After playing already established characters in MCC and MTI and not being heavily featured in MFS, this was the return to the Fozzie of the first three theatrical films.

 

[Ruahnna]

My two cents worth, which I've already said other places:

I adored IAVMMV--it brought a lot of heart back to my my favorite felted friends. I think it is one of Dave's most brilliant performances of Gonzo--you need to watch the rehearsal scene and the final reunion scene for his super ad-libbing and reactions to what's going on around him. Also, Kermit was likeable in this one without being a pushover or spineless. IMHO, this is the movie where we first saw Steve do what he wanted to do with Kermit instead of trying to channel Jim's Kermit. Before, I thought he was a bit too much of a pushover for Piggy (like in MTI), which is saying something because I'm a huge frog/pig shipper. Kermit in this show held his own and was quietly heroic. Also, his scenes with Fozzie are just grand--full of the friendship and exasperation that we expect from them. Fozzie's desperate desire to be the hero and his despair at being responsible--even unwittingly--was heartbreaking to watch. When Kermit finds him afterwards...pardon me, I need to get a tissue. It also features our first look at a more grown-up Scooter--personality-wise, at least. I have not idea what people don't like about this movie, except for the ones who don't like It's A Wonderful Life. And the Muppets are far from the first and will be far from the last to remake "It's A Wonderful Life," which is about as maudlin a Christmas movie as you'll ever get. (D'Snowthy--I usually like to hear what you have to say, but I don't think it's fair to blame this script on a fanfic author--retelling or parodying IAWL is standard Christmas fair, as is retelling or parodying A Christmas Carol.)

Muppets Wizard of Oz just didn't hold together well. Brandi was whiny and not at all full of girlish goodness. It's a good thing the muppets are naturally sweet and helpful, because she had no charm to draw them in. This Dorothy didn't want to go home to her loving family--she wanted to be rich and famous. Ho hum. The match-ups to the characters were just not good. Of all the muppets who could have played a character looking for a brain, they pick Kermit? Really? And they just flat out didn't know what to do with the characters once they'd matched them up. It was a bad mix of smarmy jokes and Hanna-Barbara-esque action sequences that did little to move the action along. The best parts were when the muppets were allowed to be, well, themselves--when Janice griped about still having the same ol' run-down EM van, when the rats appeared in droves, when Johnny is sucking up to whoever's paying the bills--all good. Piggy's wardrobe--all good. Piggy's role--well.... And while I do like Jeffrey Tambor, a little of him goes a long way. I found him funny in MFS--I found him grating in MWoO.

Speaking of MFS--This movie reminded me a lot of the original TMS, and here's why. There were funny parts and dumb parts and some that were supposed to be one and turned out to be another. As a variety show, it wasn't bad. As a movie who needed to sustain a plot? Not so great. There were funny moments, but the movie's pace was all herky-jerky, and they just didn't know how to end the durn thing. It was like they had this cool idea, "Hey! What if Gonzo thinks he's an alien?" They got the ship up in the air but then couldn't land it. And while it was lamer than lame, it wasn't even the Dawson Creek's kids fault. Plus, the aliens looked like The Electric Mayhem in drag.
Things worth salvaging from this train wreck: The Brick House dance sequence. The Muppet Boarding House (not believable, but fun). Piggy's wardrobe. Kermit scraping paint on his vacation. Gonzo on a lawnmover--okay, that was pretty brilliant. The triad of Gonzo, Rizzo and Pepe--a superb carryover. Cheese doodle? (Need I say more?) Piggy whupping up on the agent and her smackdown with her boss. Muppet Labs in the basement? (And they SLEEP in that house?) The Rats in the lab. (I'm pretty much into the rats, now--they're all good.) The penguins in the bathroom. So...some stuff, but not most stuff, and not story stuff. If D'Snowthy thinks IAVMMC was written by a disturbed fan, they apparently saved money on this film by not having a writer. And what a shame, too, because Gonzo could have Soooo carried a film....

KSY: And the moral of the story is...it's okay to hurt and even kill people if you're worried about peer pressure! Yay! No...wait.... Pardon me while I go retch....

Not shy about my opinion, but interested in others' as well.

 

[minor muppetz]

Of all the muppets who could have played a character looking for a brain, they pick Kermit? Really? And they just flat out didn't know what to do with the characters once they'd matched them up.

Well, they did need to give Kermit some sort of major role. I don't know if any of The Wizard of Oz characters fits his personality well enough. If it was a comic from Boom I could see them using Link or Beauregard or someone more appropriate.

 

[Ruahnna]

Kermit would have been a natural at playing the tin man. MUCH could have been made of him not having a heart--just ask Miss Piggy. Plus, the irony of him bemoaning how much he misses the water.... It was like they just handed out the parts of Dorothy's friends by going down the line in order of prominence in the muppet universe. Well, let's see--Kermit's the main muppet, so we'll have him play the first character Dorothy meets.... I thought Fozzie was the best cast of the lot, and I really did like the touching little moment when Gonzo coaxes him over the log, but that emotion really should have come from Kermit because of their strong friendship.
Just my thoughts.

 

[The Count]

Hi, thought I'd pop in with some Muppet morsels.

1 Actually, the script for MFS was doubly botched. From other threads, I know Drtooth has a better view on the behind-the-scenes story, and you can probably find it at Muppet Wiki... But there were two scripts written for MFS, the first by Jerry Jull legendary Muppet head writer; the second by newer members on the staff. They then threw both scripts into the blender and got the end result.

2 With regards to the MWoO character casting... Bear in mind the episode By The Book from Muppet Babies. When the babies imagine the story of The Wizard of Oz the cast is as follows:
Baby Piggy as Dorothy.
Baby Rowlf as Toto.
Baby Kermit as The Scarecrow, who ends up becoming a policeman in the ending.
Baby Gonzo as the Tin Woodsman.
Baby Fozzie as The Cowardly Lion.
Baby Bunsen and Beaker as The Wizard in his grand costume.
Baby Animal as a Winged Monkey.

Additionally, during the Wizard of Oz medley in The Muppets Go to the Movies, the cast included the following:
Piggy as Dorothy.
Foo-Foo as Toto.
Scooter as The Scarecrow.
Gonzo as the Tin Woodsman.
Fozzie as The Cowardly Lion.

So there's some precedent for having cast Kermit as The Scarecrow, Gonzo as The Tin Thing, and Fozzie as The Cowardly Lion in MWoO.
BTW: Ru, when you said Brandi as Dorothy, I think you're thinking of Ashanti instead.

Also, the funniest part of MwOo to me is and always will be when Pepe starts likening their story to all the bands from the 80's.
No, think of it okay. We left from "Kansas", we're on a "Journey"... My name is "Toto"...

3 As for the two Christmas specials, I enjoyed them because the Muppets always do good Christmas specials. Except for that other Sesame Christmas special from 1978 that was released last year.

 

[Drtooth]

Muppets Wizard of Oz just didn't hold together well. Brandi was whiny and not at all full of girlish goodness. It's a good thing the muppets are naturally sweet and helpful, because she had no charm to draw them in. This Dorothy didn't want to go home to her loving family--she wanted to be rich and famous. Ho hum. The match-ups to the characters were just not good. Of all the muppets who could have played a character looking for a brain, they pick Kermit? Really? And they just flat out didn't know what to do with the characters once they'd matched them up. It was a bad mix of smarmy jokes and Hanna-Barbara-esque action sequences that did little to move the action along. The best parts were when the muppets were allowed to be, well, themselves--when Janice griped about still having the same ol' run-down EM van, when the rats appeared in droves, when Johnny is sucking up to whoever's paying the bills--all good. Piggy's wardrobe--all good. Piggy's role--well.... And while I do like Jeffrey Tambor, a little of him goes a long way. I found him funny in MFS--I found him grating in MWoO.

MWoO deserves every bit of hate it gets. It's an embarrassing film that just makes you feel despair because of it's gross dark tone. I refer to it as the Muppets own personal Batman and Robin. Heck, it even looks like Batman and Robin with the ugly use of darkness and neon and scrambled camera angles.

Here's the many problems I had with it...

• They tried TOO hard to make this like VMX, with a nonstop barrage of pop culture jokes. Unlike VMX, they all fall flat, and if you took those jokes out of VMX, you'd still have a decent Muppet film.
• Like I said... the look was either blinding happy light or dismal, depressing darkness. Not to mention dizzying camera angles.
• Statler and Waldorf's heckling is usually in good fun. What happens when you make them villains? Suddenly, the heckling becomes trolling, and far more disturbing than funny.
• Ashanti can't act herself out of a paper bag. A Tissue Paper bag, yet. She was added in for the tween pop crowd and another reason coming soon. Bad acting isn't really a crime, but when it makes the chemistry between characters awkward and clumsy, then you have a real problem. They could have filmed Ashanti alone and edited her in the film, and the chemistry would actually be better. That's how bad it was.
• While I enjoy the concept of Piggy being a villain, they made her frightening. And not a fun one. A totally sadistic, disturbing, adult horror film type one. Making a snuff film to boot.
• By extension, her villain song is extremely creepy and disturbing. Listen clearly to the lyrics. "You're gonna wish that you were already dead." WOW! A Muppet sang that. Not Jarreth, not a Skessis, not even Wander McMooch... a lovable character like Miss Piggy. Suddenly, "Shiver me Timbers" is completely upbeat, and the original MGM Wicked Witch is absolutely adorable.
• And extending on that, the music was largely forgettable. Naptime is kinda catchy. Even Piggy's torture anthem is alright. But these are not Muppet songs anyone would care to remember.
• The entire movie is a freaking commercial for American Idol. How come the fans were up in arms about a couple Disney Channel TV Show guys have cameos in the next film and that a Cars 2 poster was on screen for 10 seconds in the last one when MWoOZ was a freaking commercial for American Idol? At least we know what Fox's hand in the movie was. They probably would have mentioned the show by name if Disney didn't buy them.
• The Nipple joke. Completely out of place. I know it was an impov aside that was never meant to be added. The Muppeteers are playful like that. Throwing it in? And we're still whining over fart shoes, huh?
• There were FAR better scripts floating around that should have been made. A retelling of a story that constantly lives in the shadow of the 1939 movie (YES! Even the original books) shouldn't have sounded like a good idea. Plus, the Muppets already DID WOZ in Muppet Babies. And better too.
• And if anyone's going to make a dark, gritty version of WOZ, why does it have to be with the Muppets? And at what point does "homage" end and "willfully stealing from more popular adaptions" begin?
• OH. I forgot. The thing was rushed out. Badly rushed out. They could have had a better Dorothy, a stronger script, better staging... but they really wanted to get it out there to launch Disney's ownership. And that movie sank that ship, lets we forget.

On the plus side... uh... Electric Mayhem and Scooter were in it. Guess that was a good thing.

 

[Ruahnna]

BTW: Ru, when you said Brandi as Dorothy, I think you're thinking of Ashanti instead.

Eek. Yes. How embarrassing. Was thinking of my own BrandeE from KG. Also, remembering thinking at the time that Brandi would have been a better choice than Ashanti....
Thanks, as always for keeping me true....

And Dr. Tooth--you are correct that the overall tone was...mean. I am pretty much against unnecessary meanness in general--it's why I cannot find anything worth watching in shows like South Park and The Simpsons and Family Guy. That sort of harsh, mean-spirited humor has no place with the muppets.

I know some folks complained that The Muppets was too "saccharine," but I didn't see it. In The Muppet Movie, Max is just a sweetie even when he's being a bad guy. In TMTM, even the big scary agents who turn them down are not genuinely mean. I thought that Veronica in The Muppets was actually a lot less pleasant at times than Tex Richman was, because when she dismissed Kermit's star quotient, she didn't really have a good reason. So...call me a wimp, but I just can't do mean--and can't think why I should.

 

[The Count]

No prob Aunt Ru. BTW: Was it you or Layla who did a oneshot about the characters in character costume from MWoO? And where would I find it?