I have an idea.

[practicecactus]

I generally don't come here much anymore cause it's made me a little jaded and synical.
When a newbie shows up with that same question you guys are probly sick of hearing, he or she is pointed to the search function.
And instead of giving out , what some think to be some big secret, a vague answer is given to a simple question.
Having said that, Ok, I'm no puppeteer or puppet maker, so think what you want.

But, I'm not one for keeping a thought to myself...and I just had this idea.

I'm interested in puppets with more character in the eyes.

I made a blinking puppet, and realised it needs a hard shell for the face for the areas around the eyes and generally something to go by in regards to eye positioning.
So an easy option would be Papier-Mache.
Paper + PVA glue is the way I remember making it from school but it needs something to be stuck onto, So I'm thinking just making a sculpt of the head or face with plasticine and going from there.

I started on a bunny puppet and made a 3D wire frame structure for the entire head.At the same time I made the blinking/up & down eye mech, and procrastinated on the whole thing. I was gonna cover the wire head with Papier-mache but I now realise, that's Un-nescesary. I did like the slight added weight it would bring to the head that would make it move more like a real head [as apossed to every puppet that moves and shakes like it's made of light weight foam...], and it would also be stronger, but using plasticine as the mold then ,when it dries, removing the plasticine, would be enough for a hard shell.
And if it needs some extra support so it doesn't flex , well, I could always make a wire support for it.
Then it'd be just a matter of incorporating it with the mouth plate , foam, covering etc,etc.

I know the idea of using plasticine and papier-mache to make a puppet heads is not new, but I just never thought of incorperating it with muppet style puppets.

Just an idea, so feel free to pick at it for weak spots.

 

[Melonpool]

There was some substance -- and I can't for the life of me remember what it is -- but I remember reading about a paste of some sort that can be painted onto foam rubber to make it rigid in some places so you can add an eye mechanism, but didn't add much weight to it or disrupt the flexibility of the rest of the puppet.

Does anyone know what this stuff is called?

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Do you mean Sculpt or Coat?

If so, the manufacturer has some pages with ideas for using it in puppet construction - http://www.sculpturalarts.com/puppetpage1.htm

 

[Melonpool]

I don't know... does Sculpt or Coat make foam rigid? It seems to me there was some kind of substance either the Muppets used or a fan replica used on Gonzo's eye mechanism to keep his skull from caving in when you activated the eye mechanism.

I could be imagining it, though.

Steve

 

[Buck-Beaver]

I generally don't come here much anymore cause it's made me a little jaded and synical. When a newbie shows up with that same question you guys are probly sick of hearing, he or she is pointed to the search function. And instead of giving out , what some think to be some big secret, a vague answer is given to a simple question.

Just to address this issue (since I tend to be one of the people who do that) I don't think anyone who suggests using the search function is trying to be mean or anything like that. It's just that inevitably in any forum like this one new users end up asking the same questions over and over again and as a result there's a huge treasure trove of answers archived here. I think it's in any new user's best interests to do some research and search through past discussions.

So I think (hope) I speak for everyone when I say there's no objection to anyone asking any question, but maybe it's still a good idea to use the search function. If nothing else you may find the information you're looking for without having to wait for people to answer your question.

 

[Jinx]

I agree, Buck. When the rudimentary questions have been asked, the archives of answers are more than worth the research. The more specific a question is, the more likely it is to receive responses that address those specifics. I think we all love helping one another as much as we can, but by the same token there's no reason to reinvent the wheel, as the saying goes.

Steve- I believe that Sculpt-or-Coat does make foam rigid, or at the very least semi-rigid. I have seen puppets that used it, and they seem quite rigid, but I've never gotten to examine one up close, and I have noe personal experience using it.

Something I've used for "spot reinforcement" in puppets is plastic canvas. it's available at most craft sores, is cheap, and flexible enough to form it how you want it yet rigid enough to add support for features or mechanisms.

 

[practicecactus]

Just to address this issue (since I tend to be one of the people who do that) I don't think anyone who suggests using the search function is trying to be mean or anything like that.

No, it wasn't directed at you or any One person.
Just think you have to word things like that carefully, or it could sound like a brush off.
"..yeah kid, we've been through this before, go do some research before you bother us here." is what you want to avoid sounding like.

Maybe a sticky post of FAQs for the puppetry section would help.

And I guess Puppet makers keeping their cards close to them in regards to tips and techniques will never change, but I just figured a "public forum" was about sharing ideas and thoughts. Otherwise, why would you post here?

*goes back into hiding*

 

[ravagefrackle]

I made a blinking puppet, and realised it needs a hard shell for the face for the areas around the eyes and generally something to go by in regards to eye positioning.
So an easy option would be Papier-Mache.
Paper + PVA glue is the way I remember making it from school but it needs something to be stuck onto, So I'm thinking just making a sculpt of the head or face with plasticine and going from there.



I know the idea of using plasticine and papier-mache to make a puppet heads is not new, but I just never thought of incorperating it with muppet style puppets.
.

if u want something more permanent , u can try doing a simple fiber glass shell in a similar way(it will need a lot of sanding ) ,or if u need a simple rounded shape for your housing , u might be able to find a plastic ball the right size to be your shell,

i have done some paper mache stuff like that for marionettes, i would be concerned about the humidity inside the puppet from a performers sweat in a hand puppet , good luck with it though

 

[Iokitek]

Well I don't mean to stir up a disussion or anything. But I agree to a certain extent with practicecactus. The forum-archives are pretty big and extensive as some of you already indicate yourselves. Sometimes the titles of the posts aren't exactly clear on where the actual conversation leads to. This post for instance is called "I have an idea" (yes PC, that's not very PC of you ) wich doesn't indicate at all that it's actually a question on how to make foam rigid. When doing a search this gets very confusing and frustrating if it ends up with a thousand results and every post seems to be about anything other than the thing you're actually looking for. While the info that you actually seek is instead in a post with a vague title.

Then there's also the issue of language and experience lvl. Someone who doesn't have alot of experience with puppetbuilding/puppeteering doesn't know all the professional jargon. And when English isn't your native language it's even harder to wade through all that information. Believe me, I know. I usually get by fine but when it comes to jargon and names of materials I'm lost sometimes. So yeah I'm all up for a FAQ sticky wich perhaps links to the most informative posts on the subject. But on the other hand I also realize it's alot of work for the moderators to dig it all up.

So maybe we could all make suggestions on topics that should be in the FAQ and what posts it should link to. So we save the moderators some work and make sure that future noobs can find the info without having to do the search themselves. And without 'us' having to answer the same questions over and over again. I think it's a great idea.

 

[hennesprod]

To the weight question in regards to paper mache, you can cut the weight down by cutting out sections that are not needed for the stability of the shape. And this can reduce the weight significantly, but still be very strong.


Cheers,

William