Gonzo is Non-Binary

[crabthehermit]

As the title suggests, Gonzo is nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns. Honestly, that is like, super fitting, though, if we're all being honest. I have literally NEVER met a NB person who didn't dress like Gonzo personified, and being the worlds most sensitive little crybaby, I know I lot of NB people. Just saying, it's probably not going to go over well with the middle-aged douches who make up most of the fanbase. Anyways, this is really old news (there is probably a thread on it already) but whatever.

 

[LittleJerry92]

I actually was never even aware of this until looking it up and….. apparently (go figure) it was the “Muppet Babies” revival this started.

Honestly I think labeling Gozo as “non-binary” just comes off incredibly distasteful.

Yes. Distasteful.

Before anyone gets on my case, please let me explain.

This is an issue I, as an LGBT person myself (bisexual guy), have with modern day LGBT representation in American media. I don’t care if a character is LGBT in itself, what gets irritating for me are these multiple factors many, MANY shows are guilty of doing:

When a character is LGBT in some way and that’s the ONLY thing they have going for them. (So I.e something like when a “gay” character is created and that’s their ONLY purpose of existing. Just to be gay or any other form of LGBT).

When a character has to spell it out-loud in gigantic capital letters that they’re (insert minority LGBT category here). When you have to spell it out in gigantic capital letters, it becomes a problem.

When an already established character suddenly has their sexual orientation or pronouns changed just for the sake of representation. This is a problem I’ve noticed a lot of modern day American media is completely guilty of.

And honestly I think labeling Gonzo as “non-binary” is poor taste because I know he’s been referred to as male numerous times in previous Muppet media.

Like yeah even I’ll admit I think it’s annoying when a bunch of morons decide to continue mis-using the word “woke” and labeling it as such (I’d say “poorly-inclusive” is the better term here) but even then, especially from other LGBT people, I think some of these complaints are valid.

Like it’s one thing if you just hate seeing this stuff cause you’re a bigot, it’s another when people just put in stuff like this just for the sake of trying to please everyone. I’m sorry but it’s not even telling me you want to be “inclusive,” it’s just telling me you’re virtue-signaling for the sake of getting brownie points from the public.

If anything I would say media before the 2010s has actually been so much better presenting organic LGBT representation without spelling it out in gigantic capital letters:

Cedric and Bob in “Seinfeld” were a gay couple but it wasn’t something that had to be constantly brought up.

Rusty the narrow gauge engine diesel in “Thomas the Tank Engine” was gender-neutral before being established as a “he” once HiT Entertainment took over by just simply not referring to the diesel as such. “The little diesel” was often how Rusty was referred to as such (or just by name). No mention of gender there.

The “Courage the Cowardly Dog” episode “The Mask” had a clearly lesbian couple being portrayed with Kitty and Bunny without spelling it out in gigantic capital letters.

And I also would like to say this - it’s reasons like this (among other many) why I pretty much disassociate myself with the LGBT community - I feel like I have to walk on eggshells with them just to make sure I watch what I say because how DARE I criticize any form of LGBT issues going on whether it’s in the community or criticizing American media etc.

Call me a “bigot” or “homophobe” or whatever (frankly I find these words have now lost all meaning at this point and are just buzzwords people throw onto each other when they’re all salty and riled up) but I said what I said with all of this. Again, I don’t have an issue with Gonzo being “non-binary” in itself. My issue is it feels like it was just put in just to please people. And honestly, I’m tired of this annoying trend with the entertainment industry as an LGBT man myself.

Create an original character, find some way to not have to spell this out in gigantic capital letters, or just keep your characters as the “default” “cis straight” character. Otherwise it’s just completely distasteful to me.

 

[crabthehermit]

I actually was never even aware of this until looking it up and….. apparently (go figure) it was the “Muppet Babies” revival this started.

Honestly I think labeling Gozo as “non-binary” just comes off incredibly distasteful.

Yes. Distasteful.

Before anyone gets on my case, please let me explain.

This is an issue I, as an LGBT person myself (bisexual guy), have with modern day LGBT representation in American media. I don’t care if a character is LGBT in itself, what gets irritating for me are these multiple factors many, MANY shows are guilty of doing:

When a character is LGBT in some way and that’s the ONLY thing they have going for them. (So I.e something like when a “gay” character is created and that’s their ONLY purpose of existing. Just to be gay or any other form of LGBT).

When a character has to spell it out-loud in gigantic capital letters that they’re (insert minority LGBT category here). When you have to spell it out in gigantic capital letters, it becomes a problem.

When an already established character suddenly has their sexual orientation or pronouns changed just for the sake of representation. This is a problem I’ve noticed a lot of modern day American media is completely guilty of.

And honestly I think labeling Gonzo as “non-binary” is poor taste because I know he’s been referred to as male numerous times in previous Muppet media.

Like yeah even I’ll admit I think it’s annoying when a bunch of morons decide to continue mis-using the word “woke” and labeling it as such (I’d say “poorly-inclusive” is the better term here) but even then, especially from other LGBT people, I think some of these complaints are valid.

Like it’s one thing if you just hate seeing this stuff cause you’re a bigot, it’s another when people just put in stuff like this just for the sake of trying to please everyone. I’m sorry but it’s not even telling me you want to be “inclusive,” it’s just telling me you’re virtue-signaling for the sake of getting brownie points from the public.

If anything I would say media before the 2010s has actually been so much better presenting organic LGBT representation without spelling it out in gigantic capital letters:

Cedric and Bob in “Seinfeld” were a gay couple but it wasn’t something that had to be constantly brought up.

Rusty the narrow gauge engine diesel in “Thomas the Tank Engine” was gender-neutral before being established as a “he” once HiT Entertainment took over by just simply not referring to the diesel as such. “The little diesel” was often how Rusty was referred to as such (or just by name). No mention of gender there.

The “Courage the Cowardly Dog” episode “The Mask” had a clearly lesbian couple being portrayed with Kitty and Bunny without spelling it out in gigantic capital letters.

And I also would like to say this - it’s reasons like this (among other many) why I pretty much disassociate myself with the LGBT community - I feel like I have to walk on eggshells with them just to make sure I watch what I say because how DARE I criticize any form of LGBT issues going on whether it’s in the community or criticizing American media etc.

Call me a “bigot” or “homophobe” or whatever (frankly I find these words have now lost all meaning at this point and are just buzzwords people throw onto each other when they’re all salty and riled up) but I said what I said with all of this. Again, I don’t have an issue with Gonzo being “non-binary” in itself. My issue is it feels like it was just put in just to please people. And honestly, I’m tired of this annoying trend with the entertainment industry as an LGBT man myself.

Create an original character, find some way to not have to spell this out in gigantic capital letters, or just keep your characters as the “default” “cis straight” character. Otherwise it’s just completely distasteful to me.

No, dude, you just perfectly summed up things I've been struggling to articulate for forever. I didn't really think about that for Gonzo, though, probably because I haven't seen any Muppet things from before like 2016 or something (I'm slowly but surely rewatching all my favorite shows first), so I haven't seen Disney making a thing about it, though knowing Disney, it's probably a thing.

But also, representation in older media was not the greatest, either. The reason that queer people in media were so low-key was because back then they were expected to be nice, and polite, and they could have their sexuality as long as they didn't bring it up, which is problematic in it's own way (that way being that it solidified 'good gays' vs 'bad gays', the good gays being the ones who were just fine with being oppressed and would not speak out against homophobia, and the bad gays being the ones who did). That being said, yes. Queer characters in shows, especially straight-oriented ones, are often way over-done, but there is a difference between queer characters who exist for the sake of the writers being able to say 'oh look at me!! look at how progressive i am!!', and queer characters who embrace their identity and don't play it down for the sake of palatability. As a bisexual person yourself, you should know how satisfying it is for a well-written, cool bi character to exist and not be seemingly ashamed of it. I know I do.

On the topic of pre-existing characters being tweaked for representation: This is genuinely a non-issue (when it's good representation, y'know), because representation is important! Not all people are the same, and its pretty important for kids to be seeing themselves in other places. It's also super important for kids to understand that being queer is not a bad thing, and presenting queer characters as normal people to them helps to do that. Yes, it's annoying for shows to turn your favorites into queer caricatures just for brownie points, but also, if you don't like it, don't pay attention. It's a fictional character.

Also, no I don't think 'homophobia' is just a buzz-word. If something's homophobic, and someone points it out, it's because something the other person said is genuinely problematic. Instead of just writing it off as people just being sensitive or overly polarizing, think a minuet about what you actually said, because nine times outta ten, people are just accidentally a-holes. Somebody saying something is homophobic should not be an insult, but a chance to say, 'hey, i'm gonna be nicer'. That's my two (million) cents though, and if you actually got this far, that's impressive! People's brains tend to (almost literally) shut down (genuinely your brain starts to shift down from your pre-frontal cortex to your limbic areas) when presented with opinions that are not their own. Also, I am a yapper. Anyways, Gonzo's silly and we love them/him.