Frank Oz worked on a new Muppet movie script

[Sgt Floyd]

So by that logic something can't be so bad that it actually is funny?

 

[Epictetus]

So by that logic something can't be so bad that it actually is funny?

Nope, it just means that if something's so bad it's funny, the joke is ON the creator, not by them!

 

[Beauregard]

Epictetus. I love you.

 

[Epictetus]

Epictetus. I love you.

*crazy Kermit celebration arms!*

 

[Puckrox]

Is anything that any one human being will laugh at a "decent joke"? If I can find some human being somewhere on earth who'll laugh at something, is it automatically good? I will grant you that it must be, in some sense, funny. It made a person laugh. (I remember my first joke. Knock knock. Who's there? Apple. Apple who? APPLE!)

But I hope you'll agree with me that this doesn't really make a joke decent. There's a higher bar. Lots and lots of people laugh every week at Two and a Half Men... and those people are Bad People. Or people with bad taste in jokes. And there are legitimate ways to talk about such jokes and figure out what's better and what's worse.

Jokes are the art by which lots of people make their living, after all. They spend their lives trying to get better at it. Is there really no distinction among all of them that can make someone, somewhere laugh?

So: all that established, let's at least acknowledge that there's a reasonable ground for claiming that jokes might not be good even if someone else laughed at them.

Um... I like to think that I have a pretty great sense of humor (I certainly don't laugh at (stupid) things like Two and a Half Men), and you're making it sound like the fact I laughed during The Muppets and found their jokes funny means I like low brow comedy... which is utterly false.

I'll admit that the Muppets do play to low brow comedy at times (ie. fart shoes), but they totally know that they do it on purpose when they do. I feel like the Muppets are a brand of comedy that can come off as low brow, but simultaneously it's so much better than low brow comedy. Honestly, the only movie of the Muppet's that made me scrunch up my face and go "...this isn't funny..." is Muppets Wizard of Oz. But this movie had some truly great moments. 'Man or Muppet' was a hilarious scene, as were parts such as: Rowlf's "montage moment", Gonzo's gag, Hobo Joe (that man needs to be my best friend), Bobo's one liners, Walter's screaming on the bus, Muppet Man, and so on. I'm sorry if those don't live up to your standards of comedy, but I see them as jokes that totally stand on their own.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I feel like the Muppets are a brand of comedy that can come off as low brow, but simultaneously it's so much better than low brow comedy.

I totally agree. I just don't think the "fart shoes" thing was an example of that, hehe.

 

[Epictetus]

Um... I like to think that I have a pretty great sense of humor (I certainly don't laugh at (stupid) things like Two and a Half Men), and you're making it sound like the fact I laughed during The Muppets and found their jokes funny means I like low brow comedy... which is utterly false.

Nope: my point is that the mere fact that you laughed at the jokes does not prove that they're good ones.

You need better arguments for that. Happily, in your next paragraph, you supply some better arguments.

I make no assumptions about your sense of humor. Since you're a Muppet fan in general, I'd be willing to assume that your sense of humor is pretty great, overall.

I'll admit that the Muppets do play to low brow comedy at times (ie. fart shoes), but they totally know that they do it on purpose when they do. I feel like the Muppets are a brand of comedy that can come off as low brow, but simultaneously it's so much better than low brow comedy. Honestly, the only movie of the Muppet's that made me scrunch up my face and go "...this isn't funny..." is Muppets Wizard of Oz. But this movie had some truly great moments. 'Man or Muppet' was a hilarious scene, as were parts such as: Rowlf's "montage moment", Gonzo's gag, Hobo Joe (that man needs to be my best friend), Bobo's one liners, Walter's screaming on the bus, Muppet Man, and so on. I'm sorry if those don't live up to your standards of comedy, but I see them as jokes that totally stand on their own.

The fart shoes are, of course, a frequently cited example of the kind of humor that Oz and other apparently anonymous Muppeteers felt was uncharacteristic and cheap. It doesn't really make sense for Fozzie, who's supposed to be a poor comedian because he doesn't really get how to do jokes right.

I've never see Muppets Wizard of Oz, but, sadly, it sounds like I should probably steer as wide a path as possible.

The Man or Muppet song was... well, it had some good internal jokes once it got going, and the idea of the actor who plays Sheldon being the human version of Walter was quite funny, but the song didn't make much sense. I mean, why is Gary conflicted? He's not a Muppet. He just cares about Walter, and the only conflict there is the one scene where the movie trots out the incredibly tired cliché of him being jealous of Walter's new friends. Why is Walter conflicted? 'Cause he hasn't... uh... found his talent? Half-baked is the kindest way you could describe these themes. If I saw these ideas on the drawing board, I'd say, "Good job, guys! This looks like an interesting start. Work hard, keep at it, and maybe by this time tomorrow you'll have enough to start on a rough draft."

Rowlf's montage moment: geez, must The Muppets be the one millionth thing to make self-conscious references to montages? South Park did a whole song about how montages make time go by quickly almost ten years ago. Rowlf's joke in particular - that he didn't know why his utterly undramatic agreement wasn't shown - is a decent minor laugh, but it's, again, a pretty worn-out joke. A perfectly legitimate part of a funnier movie, but an embarrassing joke to be given as an example of the film's best jokes.

I'm sorry if those don't live up to your standards of comedy...

Thank you, that really means a lot to me. Somebody **** well owed me an apology.

 

[Drtooth]

And thus, the end all be all opinion, one guy didn't like it. So I guess that makes it a horrible movie, especially ignoring the entire rest of the fanbase that likes it.

 

[Puckrox]

And thus, the end all be all opinion, one guy didn't like it. So I guess that makes it a horrible movie, especially ignoring the entire rest of the fanbase that likes it.

Indeed. I'm done with this conversation. It's frustrating me way too much.

Epictetus, you've got your opinion and I've got mine, and it seems pretty clear that nothing I say is going to persuade you to see things my way. So let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Drtooth]

Epictetus, you've got your opinion and I've got mine, and it seems pretty clear that nothing I say is going to persuade you to see things my way. So let's just agree to disagree.

Yeah... I'm done trying to have a discussion with someone who apparently watched just enough of South Park to see someone tell a joke that should never be told again, yet clearly didn't see the episode "Simpsons Did It," where that complaint was met with a resounding "WHO CARES?!"

I'd say 90% of Muppedom has found this a heartfelt tribute... a couple guys don't like it. That's the way it usually goes. Better to have that than everyone unanimously hating it.