Fellow Church People

[CensoredAlso]

I think Catholicism agrees that we are saved by God's grace through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Certainly! That's why I'm Catholic/Christian, because I believe that. But it is true that Protestants and Catholics have historically disagreed about faith versus works.

In the New Testament, Jesus continually critiqued the Pharisees for boasting of their faith, but not doing any good works. The Old and New Testaments are both essential, but they often say very different things.

 

[Ziffel]

Well I was saying I think Catholicism agrees that we are saved by faith in Jesus. But in any case the Bible shows us again and again that we are saved by faith in Jesus. That's why I quoted from verses like Ephesians 2:8-10. It's God's word that tells us what these wonderful truths are.
The Phairasees actually boasted of their supposed good works. They liked to brag how they followed the law in the smallest of precise details (like tithing the correct amounts in everything). But they were hard hearted and lacking in good works which is why they were mad when Jesus healed people on the Sabbath. They were so strict about not working on the Sabbath that they could not even rejoice and be happy over people being blind and crippled for many years that were now healed, praise God! But instead their hard hearts considered the healings "work". They were a good example of how we all need Jesus to cleanse us and give us a new heart. Their so-called good works were done merely outwardly and for wanting people to be impressed with their self-absorbed piety.
And here's another saying I like regarding the Testaments:
The New is in the Old contained, and the Old is in the New explained. The O.T. prophesied about a lot of things that were fulfilled in the N.T. and the N.T. quoted and clarified extensively on the O.T. (Jesus Himself quoted often from the O.T. Scriptures). Like you said, they are both essential. God's word is so brilliantly intertwined!

 

[CensoredAlso]

Well I was saying I think Catholicism agrees that we are saved by faith in Jesus. But in any case the Bible shows us again and again that we are saved by faith in Jesus.

Right, it's OUR book, so it says our point of view is the only right one. Other religion's books say their point of view is the only right one. I guess I sound like a "Hippie Christian", but I imagine everyone has gotten something right. Much like on Fraggle Rock, every species thinks they've got it right. But they actually need each other.

But I do agree with your interpretation of the Pharisees.

 

[MrsPepper]

Funny, you guys are discussing differences between Protestant and Catholic churches. I was raised in both at once and because of that I couldn't tell you the differences. ><

 

[CensoredAlso]

Just wanted to say, it's nice that we can debate without hurt feelings. It makes things a lot easier.

 

[Ziffel]

Well I was giving some biblical verses that directly tell us how to be saved. Now, of course, some may adhere to a different book or a non-Christian religion or no religion at all. But I, being a born-again Christian, was commetning on the Christian perspective and trying to help clear up through Scripture the doctrine of salvation and hopefully make the concept of faith and works a little more easy to grasp for those Christians who may be find it a little puzzling. But sure, those who don't accept the Bible wouldn't be interested (well, even then there are even atheists who do read the Bible and appreciate it for inspiration!) and that's fine. I have my convictions (as does everyone) and I'm convinced the Bible is true (not just because its OUR book that the church says we are to use but for many other reasons. Like it gives a peace that no human work ever could. Like it's so amazingly intertwined and all harmonizes together so brilliantly that no human could have come up with it on their own). And my life has been changed and touched by receiving Jesus Christ and I love to talk about Him and share my personal testimonies, as well as what I have learned from the Bible. But I love all people of course (except those who knock over my wet floor signs and don't pick them back up. Just kidding!) and their religion or lack thereof has nothing to do with my friendship with them or my respect or appreciation for them.
Oh hi there MrsPepper! Yeah, I was only even mentioning Catholicism to say that it was my understanding that they believe the SAME as Protestantism. Both are the same brothers and sisters in Christ to me. My focus is on the Bible, not denominations.
Oh and now I see another comment by you heralde. And yes absolutely. I think Fozzie's post in this thread earlier was excellent. I think this thread started by Bill Bubble Guy is a wonderful one and let's indeed keep sharing our faith and thoughts here and not get offended if someone disagrees on something. AMEN!

 

[CensoredAlso]

It is interesting how so many debates come from inside a religion, as opposed to from one religion to another.

The thing is, The Bible can be (and is) interpreted in so many different ways. Terry Jones (from Monty Python) said something interesting once, "Jesus said all these nice things like love your neighbor, but for the next thousand years, people were killing each other and torturing each other because they couldn't quite figure out how he said it."

 

[Ilikemuppets]

You're right on the money, Ilikemuppets. "There is no one good, no not one" (Romans 3:9,10). "All fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) And like you said, if we are guilty of even ONE commandment of God then we are guilty of ALL (James 2:10) so no one can be "good enough" to be saved. That's why, as you also said, Jesus had to die. Jesus is God who also became man for us and lived a sinless life (which no one can do) and then sacrificed Himself for us so that whosoever believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16) You are also correct, ILM, that Jesus died for everybody (WHOSOEVER believes in Him) and that He is also the only way to salvation (whosoever believes in HIM). Also as Jesus Himself said in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father BUT BY ME". And Acts 4:12 "There is salvation in NO ONE ELSE. There is NO OTHER name under Heaven by which we can call upon to be saved." And 1 John 5:12,13 "He who has the SON HAS life, he who does NOT have the SON does NOT have life. I say these things to you who have the SON OF GOD so that you may KNOW you have ETERNAL LIFE."
Isn't that wonderful news that we can KNOW we have eternal life. It's so simple and yet so critical. Acts 15:11 "We are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus". Acts 16:30,31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved."
It's not about what a church, religion, or individual says. God's word is clear. Jesus is the only way to be saved.
By the way, I've never heard of a Catholic church teaching that you can be saved apart from Jesus if you are a "good person". Since Catholicism is Christian that really surprises me if that's the case in any Catholic church. But even if it is, we have the truth given to us by God in His word and needn't be bothered or confused by any person or group saying contradictory things.
Glory be to Jesus. "He Himself IS our peace" (Ephesians 2:14)

Thanks brother ILM, for your good posts. Nice to have you here.

Thank you Ziffle. It's what Ive ben taught by my parent's who's parents were missionaires and my Grand father was also a preacher, and My sunday School teacher's and My pastor. Not to Brag But I read the Entire Bible from start to finish so I must unconchiously must know my stuff. They make you remember the Catacism at the new members class at my church so I've studies it my whole life to and the lif I've been living. None of that stuff well save you of course but the content in which is in the bible (the word of the Lord) Which if you follow it that I believe will. You keep it with you for life. Jesus still love us even though we've failed. He want's us to admit it and confess it to him and he will clean it from us despite that.So it's not our goodnees that saves us but God's love (his goodness) that dose. I love that song "No Not One".

 

[MrsPepper]

Hi back to you Ziffel, and heralde!
It is good that people don't get offended. I think that people should try to discuss things like this more openly, with an open mind and heart. Once you are colse minded and start focussing on differences, people put themselves above others. If we don't see each other as equal human beings, that's where hate comes into play. But if we focus on similarities and try to work through, there is no room for hate.

I was only even mentioning Catholicism to say that it was my understanding that they believe the SAME as Protestantism.

I'm not sure if you were thinking in general or specifically, but as I said I was raised with both (Catholic School, Anglican Church on sundays) and I haven't found it too conflicting. There are subtle differences, and as far as I can tell I'm not wholly one belief or the other, so it makes it difficult for me to answer the question, "What religion are you?" It's frustrating more than anything. That's why I said we should focus on similarities. Because the little differences don't eman anything, and when people concentrate on that, they forget that it's the same God that we are all praying to.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Catholic and Anglican are actually very similar to each other. Other denominations show the differences more. But I totally understand what you mean about focusing on similarities, rather than differences. We get so nervous about differences. But then we shockingly realize how much we have in common. In the end, we are all human.

Though I think Anglicans have women priests, is that right? That is something I wish the Catholic Church would improve on.