Fellow Church People

[CensoredAlso]

I wasn't talking about any one person. Just in general.

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Being the governoe of your self well get you to where you don't want to be for eternity. It scares me what you put out there for impressionable minds.

Jesus wasn't just aperson who lived and died, has was here before the beginning and will be after the end. He spoke all that is an exsistance into it. There were all kind of people befoer he became man on earth, but he created, was in charge, and was king over those people to. he came back alive for those people and decended back to to his thorwn at the right hand side of the father as ruler of all.

I believe there is no goo in people besides god, and even those who don't believe in him can do nothing good away from him. Any good we have in ourselver is no good and will sand you strait to ****, point blank.

All I'm saying os Jesus makes the difference. If you choose not to rob a bank, no good you did besides him will save you from your action. If you do rod a back, Jesus can save you from what you did. Either way, with out Jesus, your no better then the person who robbed a bank. Jesus didn't die to save the world because we were good a or had some kind of good in us. He did becaus we were sined aginst him and he love us and wanted to save us to put his goodness in us becaues we didn't have any in ourselves.

I have to dissagree about us being inheritently good. If we were good, then Jesus would have no reason to lose his life at all. But we were all going to die, so he died for us so we would not have to, because of our own sin. Man by nature is sinful.

We are just dirt that deservers to die. That's what God was telling Adam. You think you're bid enought to sin aginst me, I created you, and let me show you just how big you really are.

I would'n wait around to get saved by anyone, but I would wait on Jusus. But he does not wait around to save us because when you ask him ti, he does it and you are right then and there. And the productive was to spend time is to serve the Lord becaus of what he saved us from, because he loves us, and because he served us first.

Part of the fact that were. You say dirt doesn't burm. well God' gonna burn the whole earth, There's nothing he can't do, so you tell him that. But Your dirt does return back to the earth, and your spririt sure can.

There's people who claim to be christans but are not. And it doesn't make it right that they did it. If there not sorry for what they did, and confess it, there in as much if not more trouble then anyone else. There might be some thing's not by satan. I think schizophrenia is debatable. It mean there was the mentaly ill man who eveyone was scared of and Jesus cast deamoms out of. Those thigs are real, you know. Not saying that's always the case, but there's nothing he can't heal someone from.

No, it was not right of them. But if there are impresionable kids on here, why would you say somthing about people thinking it's right to burn other people. Thoes frighting views of mine are beyound me and what I feel is the truth. That's vere true, people do have to choies to be the best person they can be for it's own sake. It's just my believf that that is emtiness and can get you nowhere good for an eternity. Nobody is trying to earn brownie poins from god. We shoud just choose to love him becaus he does us. And part of the reason he want's us to choose to love and obay his, is because he want's us to live just as he does. Other wise, we die.

If we don't fear the ruler of human beings, just as he spoke us into existance, he can open his mouth and speak us right out. You can agree to be the goveror of youself if you want to, you'll just end up where ever yourself leads you, and I think tht I know where that is. I don't want to be a full human being, but something greater...Who god has called me to be. The bible says people who are saved by the blood of Jesus are not even of this earth anymore. Humanity is lost in sin and is doomed for destruction. I'm not just going to tell people what they want to here, and here to say what I think I know is the truth.

 

[Ilikemuppets]

I disagree that work's are more important then faith. It's our faith alone that save us. God could not cere less about our works we do. You cannot earn or buy gods love. Saying that, I believe that it is by grace through faith, with works that we are saved. Aberham way saved based on faith in the lord and believing in his son. All the work he did for god would have bee worthless without faith in god. Same thing with moses, without faith, the work would have no meaning.

I'm sorry you feel that way Beebers, But we dust from the ground and we do deserve to die. So what I'm saying God is good for not giving us what we deserv, which is why I think choosing to believe in him, follow him, and fear him is what we should do. Because sense that's what we are, if we are not thankful about it, senes he created man and is in chare of them and life and death, he could certantly do that to us, but it's not what he want's for us. So if we choose to not follow him, we make that choice for ourselves. But if you tuen away from god, he will turn away from you...That's what the bible teaches.

 

[Beakerfan]

we can easily settle this.. withthe bible itself.. there is a passage that clearly states "Faith without works is dead."

WHOA!!! Where in the Bible does it say that?!?! I don't recall ever reading that, and if it does say that, you've taken it out of context. There's no point in being a Christian if our lives don't show it, but it's not the works that save us.

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Works are like extar. Jesus said what you did for smmeone else, you did for me. Works have to to with what did you do for God. God ecnoledges thoes works and rewards them. But it's by faith in God's son, through grace, with works that you are saved. But you can't have one without the other.

 

[Davina]

ok, sorry, didn't have my scriptures with me earlier and didn't want to get the reference wrong.. but.. King James version quoted here (it's all I use.. i've looked at the "new english" ones.. but.. they just seem wrong to me..)

James 2:14- 26
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it had not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without they works, and I will shew they my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his sone upon the alter?
22 Seest though how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Then in Proverbs 16:1-3
1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.
2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigeth the spirits.
3 Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.

Romans 4:1-6
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But unto him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works



and i never said that works alone would save us..and that's not what these scriptures are saying either. i was merely agreeing that neither will faith alone save us.. if all you have is faith, but don't live accordingly, then what you have is lip service (or gradually becomes lip service, even if it started out as honest faith) You can't claim to believe in something and then not live accordingly (though lots of things in popular media try to tell us otherwise...)

 

[MartyMuppets]

Wow. Such a lot has been happening since I was here last. Where to begin?

Well first of all Hello Sylinde, and I will PM you to talk sometime.

Let me just say that I agree with Ilikemuppets that we're saved by grace through faith alone. Works are not the way to salvation, but the evidence of our saving faith in Jesus.

As for going to confession, I don't go very often but I do if there's some worry I'd really like to talk to a priest about. Official church teaching recommends confession, I think, at least twice a year. But if individual Catholics choose not to go at all that's up to them. In principle I do believe that I don't need to confess my sins to a priest for God's forgiveness. But sometimes it's nice knowing you can talk about them knowing the priest won't tell anybody else at all.

And penance doesn't necessarily involve saying a set number of Our Father, Hail Mary etc. (though it still can) Most priests prefer to give you an action of a kind deed to do for someone, as Muppet Newsgirl said. We don't do our penance in order to earn our salvation as Catholics. We do it out of gratitude that God has forgiven us out of His amazing love.

I'll share some other thoughts later on.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Just to keep everyone on track: We'll all end up reviewing and deciphering what the Bible says. Be open to different interpretations of the Bible, as that is how it was written and intended to be read.

I do not mind a good discussion or even a good debate on the subject of religion(s), but this is a forum dedicated toward a positive influence and fun times and don't want this thread to become inflamatory, so be careful when debating, please.

Keep in mind, too, that there are different denominations of faith and each of those particular religious ideas will be just as different. So, when discussing or reading be sure to take into the considerations what someone else might believe. You can reinforce your beliefs with quotes or scriptures, but do not demean or belittle someone if they believe differently than you do--keep in mind, that's one of the lessons Jim Henson was teaching us.

 

[Gonzo14]

Just wondering, what does everyone think of the Left Behind books and movies

 

[Beakerfan]

I think they're ok. But we've been studying the book of Revelation in my church lately, and now I think I'd have to read them again to be able to say what I really think of them.