Fellow Church People

[Ziffel]

Heh heh, and you ziffeled me Beakerfan while I was ziffeling you in my edit!

And yes heralde, Jesus was indeed like us in every way, except that He never sinned (Hebrews 4:15,16). So He was the perfect substitute for us. Fully God (perfect in every way) who became fully Man (through special conception of The Holy Spirit, not Joseph, so that He, unlike us, did not have the sin nature imparted) who could identify with all of our weaknesses and temptations.

Edit: yes heralde, while there are some things that Christians can have disagreements on interpretation over, other things are abundantly clear from His Word, the Bible, which gives many verses on Jesus's sinless perfection (eg. 1 Peter 2:22 "He committed no sin, nor was any deceit found on His lips" whereas with every other person "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23. Which is why Jesus is the only solution to our sin problem.

 

[MartyMuppets]

Yes that is the way I understand it Beakerfan. There is such a thing as justified or righteous anger in rebuke for wrongs done. But the Bible does tell us somewhere in one of Paul's writings not to allow our anger lead us into sin.

In fact in John's Gospel while it speaks of Jesus making a whip of cords in the temple it does not say He actually hit any of the people, only that He chased them out with it. So Jesus had His righteous anger under perfect, sinless control so He did nothing wrong through losing His temper.

Ziffeling abounds in this thread today LOL

 

[CensoredAlso]

Right exactly. The message of the story is that getting angry and reacting badly to things is an imperfect part of being human. It's natural, we all do it. It doesn't mean we're bad people. It means we're not perfect. And no one, not even Jesus, is above getting angry and losing it.

And yes, Jesus didn't let his anger lead to sin.

 

[Ziffel]

But I would add, heralde, that it is also a sin to NOT be angry at injustices. Sins of omission just like sins of commission. In fact, when people basically just shrug their shoulders when something awful happens, I think God is grieved at the apathy. Whereas when Jesus was angry at the Temple money changers, I submit that God was well pleased in every way with this reaction.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Oh yeah, anger is not a sin. But occasionally, an imperfection. I don't think Jesus should have been apathetic to what was happening. But again, he warned against violent revolution. He didn't advocate going to war against the Romans. He was probably angry with the tax collectors and prostitutes as well sometimes, but he treated them with love.

I'm not saying he wasn't justified in his anger. He certainly was. But he wouldn't have told his followers to react the way he did. Everyone loses it sometimes, especially when they see injustice.

And there are Christians who say the Bible is the final word. And there are others who say it is up for interpretation. This is a very important question. Everyone has a different opinion on this.

But btw, these are questions that have been argued and debated for centuries, so it's ok if we don't find a solution today.

 

[Ziffel]

That's it, that's the key, "speaking the truth in love" (Eph. 4:15) and with "gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15). Jesus is our great example (1 Peter 2:21; Ephesians 5:1,2) to follow, for He shows us the right way to do all things. And not only did He save us who believe in Him from the penalty of our sins but also from the power. Which is why He comes to live in us. Because He loves us and wants to empower us to live as God intended His beloved people to live.

Been a great discussion here, thanks so much to you all!

{{{{{{{{{{BillBubbleGuy,beakerfan,heralde}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Oh and you're right, heralde. The Bible is so rich and deep and God's ways are so much higher than ours that we could never settle all the matters in one day here. hee hee hee

 

[CensoredAlso]

That's it, that's the key, "speaking the turth in love" (Eph. 4:15) and with "gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15). Jesus is our great example (1 Peter 2:21; Ephesians 5:1,2) to follow, for He shows us the right way to do all things.

Definitely, that's what I personally like about Jesus, that he set an example of love and forgiveness, even though it wasn't the norm or very popular. And he also showed it's perfectly (heh, perfectly) normal and justified to get angry sometimes. But that there are better ways of handling things.

Yes, great debate, yay! I'm glad we can talk about these things without getting...uh...angry lol.

It's just like Fraggle Rock, there are a lot of different perspectives. And everyone's right and wrong sometimes.

 

[MartyMuppets]

Thanks everybody. I enjoy a good spiritual debate.

 

[Gonzo14]

Personally I believe in the creation accounts of Genesis. With each day having some creation performed until it was finished in 6 literal days. Then He rested on the 7th day. God did not use the Big Bang of evolution to make everything appear and then evolve it over millions of years. That's not what Scripture says.
But I can agree with you if you mean in context that God said Let there be light. And there was light like as in a big bang illuminating the start of the first week cycle as instituted by the Creator in the beginning.

what i meant was that, the thing that scientists think is the big band, was actually god creating the world

 

[MartyMuppets]

yes I had hoped that was what you intended to say my friend. I couldn't agree more.