Copyrighting puppets

[Luke]

Ravagefrackle,
that was a pretty good post there. and while i do agree strongly with what you're saying, this is my first "big" gig, deep down i know i should be charging more, but it's hard for me to reconcile pricing when i feel like if this falls through, poof, it's back to square one. i mean, i'm not a big name in the industry, not incredibly advanced in my puppet making skills (i've only been building for about 3 years) and he was very clear about not wanting to invest a ton in the workshop stage, while he's still figuring out if the show will work. he did talk about spending more if the show proves to be feasible, which we'll have to talk about more. i looked at andrew's puppet pricing calculator and used it as a guideline for my prices. i'm charging about $18/hr and each puppet takes me about 20 hours to build, hence the $360, and i calculated material cost to be $87 (I did forget about shipping, so when we work out a price i'll have to add that in). i'm trying to reach a happy medium, not undervaluing myself while not scaring him away.

My advice to you, as most important than anything else is to have him sign an agreement stating that he is licensed to use the puppets for the TV broadcast of that show only, and anything else, ie merchandising, home distribution and any other licensing rights are excluded. Also have it put in the agreement does not include ownership of the character rights. Last but not least make sure to negotiate a credit in the titles - "puppets by" and your company name. That way whatever you charge you get some free advertising at the least. It is defintely worth the money having a proper lawyer draw up any agreement.

Everything Ravage said is totally valid though, you have to protect yourself as it might be a small local TV show today, but who knows whether it might catch on and be a big hit tommorow.

 

[puppetsmith]

NO IT WONT , i have had many discusions with a entertainment and copyright attorney , this will do no good whats so ever!

if you want a copyright then get a real copyright ,

I just wanted to post a bit of clarification here. The following is taken from the Library of Congress' copyright site under FAQ:

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”

Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?
Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration” and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works.

I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.

Personally, I would totally recommend registering your works with the Library of Congress. The cost of registration is $45. Well worth it. You would be able to present a much more solid case if you had to go to court, plus you can sue for attorneys fees.

BUT, know this....that your work is YOUR WORK and is protected under copyright law the moment you create it, even without registering it.


Copyright laws are in place to protect artists, writers, poets, and puppet builders and are inherently (since changes made in 1978) on YOUR side. I just don't want anyone to think that their creations do not belong to them and that they are not due their rights to the creations, even if they didn't register their work with the government.

 

[puppetsmith]

i understand thier desire to not spend money, but you need to not be so trusting that they will take care of you in the end.

Amen.

 

[staceyrebecca]

Bezalel, I was just about the post that.

 

[MGov]

Puppetron, I just sent you a private message about this.

Edited to add:

I just read this thread all the way through. Probably should have done that before sending the private message.

Now I've sent you three private messages.

It's kinda funny, actually.

 

[spcglider]

Actually, the way to deal with this situation is to discuss the amount with them in a factual and up-front way.

If they only want to spend $380.00 per puppet, then that's what they should get... a $380 puppet.

I made a custom Blandings Turtle puppet for the Bell Museum of Natural History. They wanted to own the puppet AND the design. So I charged them $2500.00 for the whole package. I designed the puppet from the ground up, I built the puppet using professional materials, I supplied them with a performance for the video they were making, they owned the physical puppet itself, and I gave them the rights to use the character however they'd prefer.

And at that I was probably undervaluing the piece.

If they'd wanted to spend only $380, they'd have gotten a puppet made from an existing pattern out of sweatshirt fleece. No performance, no rights, no special extras (I airbrushed details on the puppet). And the only reason they'd be keeping the puppet is that it was made from materials I don't prefer.

But you gotta remember NOT to under value yourself or your time or your talents. I know sometimes it's hard to look a client straight in the eye and tell them you're worth way the heck more than what they want to pay. I do it every day. But there are economics you really need to observe. Things that are standard in every industry... like marking up your materials. it somehow doesn't seem right, but it is standard in every industry to mark up the costs of your materials. If you're actually spending $80 on materials, you should be charging $160.00.

Are you custom dying the fabrics? That is time. Time is money. You can't just charge them or the time you spend sewing. You'll be out of business in a month. Do you have to travel to get materials? Go to a store? That has got to be figured in to the money as well. That's time and gas. Gotta be in there. Otherwise you are literally giving those things away.

Some people say "doesn't that come out of the hourly $ I charge?" The answer is NO. The money you charge for your hourly rate is the money YOU DESERVE for doing the work itself. if you want to roll your operations budget into your hourly rate, that's fine... but START with your base rate for the work and ADD the operations budget on top of that. NEVER give it away. NEVER.

Oh, and a special note: There is no such thing as a "buddy deal". Never let anyone convince you that they are a pal and you should cut your rate for a pal. Why? Because as soon as you cut your rate for someone, THAT becomes your new rate FOREVER. Trust me on this. They will expect you to cut your rate for every other job that comes up. Don't believe me? Do it once and you'll find out how I speak the truth. I have clients in the ad biz that expect me to charge them rates I was charging back in 1998 because they're "buddies".

When someone asks you to cut your rate for no particularly good reason, simply ask them how much they are cutting their rate for the job. that'll put a little perspective on it for them. I do that to greedy producer types all the time for ad work.

-Gordon

 

[spcglider]

Arrrgh. stupid computer tricked me into posting twice.

-Gordon

 

[Teenager's]

Now I feel so guilty for making that Hyena puppet so cheaply.....I'm so sorry Puppetry Community.

(It may sound like I'm mocking people, but I'm not I'm being sincere)

 

[ravagefrackle]

dont apploigive to much, your young and new to the machinations of the entertainment indusrty, heck, im still trying to muddle my way thru it all.

but i think Gordon,and Pasha and myself, are simply trying to import someof our wisdom and expierence to evryone else,

like evrything else its a dog eat dog industry , and i am happy to make sure that you newbies dont get screwed as much as we have in the past

 

[staceyrebecca]

Gosh, I'm feeling like a fool for selling the 2 puppets I made (w/a 2 day deadline) to the ad agency for $250 total....Flat out, they get the puppets, they can re-use them as many times as they want for whatever they want. At least, that's what I assume. I mean, they kept the physical puppets. And I felt like I was over-charging them. I think the way I make puppets is a lot more simple than you guys, but still...I have set a standard.

yar indeed.