Confusion at the end of Muppets Take Manhattan

[christyb]

Oh Boy this is making my head spin.

 

[timrikthegorf]

I don't know about that one. That would mean that really is an alien, and Bobo's really a sidekick for that villian that Jeffery Tambor played. (I can't remember the name though.)

Exactly why MFS can't really be what you would call "muppet history". Unless Bobo happens to have a twin brother named Rentro.

Al movies are just movies. Even TMM doesn't fit at all with the Muppet Show history of the characters. If you try to say any movie is "real history" you go in circles. There are only a few "real history" moments and none of them are entire movies.

 

[Skeeter Muppet]

To me, MTM is the Muppets' OAV. For those who don't know and/or aren't big anime fans, OAV stands for "Original Animated Video". It's sometimes referred to as "Original Video Animation" or OVA. It's used to describe an animated feature that's released onto home video and DVD without being shown on broadcast, cable or theatrical releases first. Several anime series have both television and OAV versions, but the OAVs can differ greatly from the TV series to the point where they're like alternate universes.

As an example, I'll use the Tenchi series. There have been four versions of it released, three on television and one in OAV. Each one has the same core characters, but how they meet, the plots of each episode and the overall storyline and the various villains are different. In fact, one main character in two of the television series does not appear at all in the OAV. The only thing that remains consistent is the theme of a teenage boy/young man living with six girls, all of them aliens, and two of whom have a crush on him.

MTM is similar. Same familiar characters, same theme (trying to get into show business, in this case Broadway), different story. There are no similarities between MTM and TMS. There's no breaking of the fourth wall like there was in GMC or Kermit telling Robin that it's "kind of" how the Muppets met like in TMM. And the Muppets aren't playing "parts" like they do in MCC and MTI.

-Kim

 

[GelflingWaldo]

Now that we've debated the reality of the Muppet movies, I still have one more question about MTM that is contained within the film itself and not the whole muppet universe.

When they put on Manhattan Melodies at the end, the musical seems quite fun for the audiance, and the audiance seems to love it. Yet when the characters enter the church for the wedding scene the church set on the stage blocks the audiance from seeing anything. Their are walls on all 4 sides of the room, how does the audiance see what is going on in the musical that they paid to go see? It seems like the Muppets should have gotten a better set designer to build a set where the audiance could see the final scene of the show, or at least remove the back wall of the church set.

 

[Vic Romano]

To quote George Lucas... "The power of myth." ?

 

[Beauregard]

Right, time for lil old Beauregard to wade right in here.

As Kermit says to Robin at the begining of MM "It's sort of aproximatly how it happened."

Now, we all know that TMS is the real true history of the Muppets. Which means that Scooter met Kermit a different way, HOWEVER since MM is a HOLYWOOD movie, thinks have been changed by the "Muppet Writers."

Look at it this way: Kermit and Gang have finished the Muppet Show. They hire a writer (let's call him Gags Beesly) Gags Beelsy then listens to the true stories of how the Muppets met, and writes a DRAMITICED holywood account. Changing true events, and adding people like Scooter, who the Muppet world loves.

Then, MCC is a movie. Totally.

MTM incorperates some truth, but is another Movie.

VMMC... I need to think about more.

 

[Vic Romano]

Wait a minute now, if we're all willing to agree that the Muppets are actors performing characters of the same name, generalized, dramatasized renderings of bits and pieces of truth along with artistic liberty written by the Gags Beesly's of the writer's association, then who's to say TMS isn't also a scripted show (backstage gags included) where the gang is merely acting? Thusly any true Muppet history is unscripted interviews and such. Granted it's more difficult to swallow TMS isn't actual history what with things like the Steve Martin episode, but who's to honestly say?

Despite that I am a firm believer TMS is actual Muppet history.

 

[Muppetsdownunder]

I've thought about that church scene in mtm also! its something that has caused a bit of thought and confusion but its not something id lose sleep over. It is a funny way for the show to end just like that. Maybe there is a way for the audience to see the wedding its just not portrayed on the film. Maybe the stage revolves and the wall opens up. Who knows!

 

[Beauregard]

Here's another thought developing from my previous idea:

If the films are Hollywoodized versions of the truth...

Perhaps: In true history it goes like this.

Kermit decides to go to an acting school. Along the way he meets Fozzie at the ElSleezo Cafe, Piggy at the beauty pagent, etc. They are chased by Doc Hopper who wants oto make Kermit his spokesperson, but eventually they get to the acting school asnd Miss Stacy won't let them in. They manage to get through to the man in charge, and he gives them a shcoolership for their acting studies.

(In terms of the Muppet Movie Mr Gag Beezly {Or whoever their writer is, [other than Jerry Jhul, of course]} decided it would be a better movie if they were heading to Hollywood instead of an acting school. It's called Dramatic licence, and they decided to do that to make it more exciting, etc... But it is still mostly based on real events...

Also, remeber that in Real Life the Muppet Show was a show, not a hollywood production, or even on TV)

Back to the True story:

They finish up at the acting school with a big production of Manhatten Melodies. They travel to Broadway, etc, etc... The Weding Is Just In the Play, but In The Real Play the Church is Built Differently and Gonzo Plays the Minister.

(In Mr Gag's Beezly's version for the movie to make it more dramatic at the end, he adds this questian of whether they were married [in the movie] and the answer is, yes. Kermit saying, "I thought Gonzo was playing the minister" is an 'in' joke for the Muppet Gang because in Real Life Gonzo did.)

Back to Real Life:

After the production of Manhatten Melodys they make The Muppet Show in a small town theatre owned by Scooter's Uncle. Scooter joins as he did in TMS.

They are so famous they decide to make movies of their life. They hire someone named Mr Gags Beezly (or whatever) to write the story, but more dramatic.

He does.



....

Now, I'll try and add the rest of Muppet history later.

Bea{That took a lot outta me}regard

 

[timrikthegorf]

Ok, it's like this. There is no muppet hitory. All shows and movies are just shows and movies. Even though The Muppet Showe was suppose to be a simple stage show in a theater, many times there were refferences to a TV audience. So, it, like everything else, is just a scripted show. The only true "history" is that Kermit and the rest are actors.

Now, if we get rid of the muppet show as being any kind og history, we can be left with one true history. And that history is The Muppet Movie!

So, the easy way out is to dismiss all the scripted shows and stuff and only take TMM as any kind of atempt to give the muppets a realistic back ground since that was said to be "sort of how it happened".

As for MTM, that's been answered. It WAS a real minister. Jim Henson actually had a minister play the part. Does tat mean the characters are legally married? Of course not, don't ask such an insane question. As for the set, it's called having an artistic license.