Carol Spinney a 'Muppeteer'?

[Marky]

When the credits roll for various Muppet specials/movies (TMM, CEoSS) his name is separate from the other muppeteers? Often it's like this:

...Starring the Muppet Performers:

Jim Henson
Frank Oz
Jerry Nelson
Richard Hunt

and Carol Spinney as Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch

I'm letting my ignorance show here, but what's up with that?
And another thing... why have so many scenes with Big Bird and Oscar when they'd have to dub/edit so much more it being the same actor doing both voices?
And another thing... why was Dave Goelz hardly ever on Sesame Street? Was he afraid of Snuffy?

 

[D'Snowth]

I think it's because Big Bird was intended to be the main focus of Sesame Street (much like Elmo is today), and two there were two seperate occasions when Jim had asked Caroll to come to New York to "talk about the Muppets", meaning he wanted Caroll to join. Another thing too, Caroll joined in August of 1969, three months before the Sesame premiere was supposed to take place, so I'm sure that if he hadn't had joined, to a degree, Sesame Street probably would still be grounded. If I'm told correct, Frank Oz was originally considered to play Big Bird, but he refused to do "suits".

And Dave Goelz is hardly on Sesame Street, because he was one of the muppeteers Jim wanted to keep seperated from Sesame Street. (Steve Whitmire was originally one of those performers, until he took on Kermit and eventually Ernie).

 

[Marky]

Hmmm... the Dav answer, I can believe. But I still don't see how your carol spinney comment answers (one of) my questions anout him.

 

[Infinity Sirius]

Caroll Spinney is not part of the core group of muppeteers that Jim hired on to do the Muppet Show and other shows. He has always been part of Sesame Street and though I consider him a muppeteer his main work has always been with Sesame Street and not with a lot of other Muppet activities.

 

[Marky]

Caroll Spinney is not part of the core group of muppeteers that Jim hired on to do the Muppet Show and other shows. He has always been part of Sesame Street and though I consider him a muppeteer his main work has always been with Sesame Street and not with a lot of other Muppet activities.

True, and yes, I do know this. However does he not manipulate Muppets on Sesame Street? The show was on 7 yaers before the Muppet show. They were called Muppets even before Sesame Street. If it's a matter of project-exclusiveness then why isn't Dave Goelz given the same type of 'tag'??

The question still remains unanswered!

 

[jeffkjoe]

I think the reason Carroll Spinney is the only Muppeteer with a credit like that is because Oscar and Big Bird were created to interact with the humans on the street. At least, that's how they were conceived back in the 1969. They were "separate" from the other Muppet segments.

Those characters, therefore, were more like "cast members" rather than "Muppets", per se.

 

[Marky]

I think the reason Carroll Spinney is the only Muppeteer with a credit like that is because Oscar and Big Bird were created to interact with the humans on the street.

Okay, okay... I'll let that one go.

But why cast him doing both voices? Would that not cause a logistical nightmare for the video editors?

 

[jeffkjoe]

This is just a guess, but I don't think back in 1968-1969, when they were creating the show, they originally had Oscar and Big Bird interacting with each other. I think they would have the two characters in their own separate environments interacting with the humans at different times.

In the early shows, you'll notice few scenes where the two characters met and interacted with each other. Maybe, you'd get the occasional knock on the trash can by Big Bird, but otherwise.....But as the years went on, they discovered ways to get around that.

I remember as a kid growing up watching the shows in the early 1970's, it'd be once in a blue moon where you'd see Big Bird and Oscar acknowledging each other's existence.

 

[ReneeLouvier]

I always thought that seperate billing was a bit odd. Perhaps it's because he never was on the Muppet Show. or with the Muppets at all. Just Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch, and they mainly were with Sesame Street. Whereas, Richard Hunt, Jim, Jerry, Frank, they all did double duty as muppeters for everyone.

Either that or because he did Big Bird, and they decided Big Bird's performer would get a special mark, and they just threw Oscar in that line, because...well he performs him too.

[Edit] I just realized I'm echoing Infinity Sirius's comment above. XD

 

[Marky]

I always thought that seperate billing was a bit odd. Perhaps it's because he never was on the Muppet Show. or with the Muppets at all. Just Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch, and they mainly were with Sesame Street. Whereas, Richard Hunt, Jim, Jerry, Frank, they all did double duty as muppeters for everyone.

Either that or because he did Big Bird, and they decided Big Bird's performer would get a special mark, and they just threw Oscar in that line, because...well he performs him too.

[Edit] I just realized I'm echoing Infinity Sirius's comment above. XD

Okay, okay. I agree. LOL!

So now here's a question for you...


What in the name of Elmo did they cast 2 characters - usually always together - with the SAME ACTOR!!!!


(banging head on piano)