Ask Ken at Palisades

[grail]

actually, i would think they would technically have to buy another license. let's face it, SS is not owned by Henson anymore, there is no way that Henson can give them permission to do it. Sesame Workshop can. there's a process to getting a license (something i'm kinda learning firsthand myself), and while i think that it would be EXCELLENT if they were to get a license to do it, it's not logistically possible if only using Henson.

of course, i'm sure having a successful Muppet line would be a definate plus in any negotiations to do Sesame figs, and as the only Muppet thing currently on the air they'd probably get some buyers that they wouldn't get for MS.

there's also a line that they would have to walk. yes, they make excellent figures, but at it's core, Sesame Street is for young children (even though all of us love it too). would you want a 3 year old to have a figure with accessories like Kermit's mug, or Fozzie's rubber chicken? things that are easily swallowed? do you want to tell a 3 year old that he can't have a Bert figure because they might swallow the pigeon? and before anyone says it, the argument of "then just don't give the kids the accessories" won't fly. you know just as well as i do that most of america is stupid (i'll leave those of you in foreign countries alone, because i'm not from there, so i don't know what your GP is like). all it takes is for one idiot to buy their kid a figure and have them choke on an accessory for Palisades to suddenly be in all sorts of hot water. so they'd either have to come up with things that pass all the child safety tests or ship with no accessories...which would cheese off the collector's...and let's face it...collector's are always the one's that complain, a little kid won't care.

you also can't go the reverse, and say, "well just market them to collectors". first off, some idiot (probably american) will see it, remember that his kid likes that character, and buy it for them...then we've got the same situation: kid chokes, parent sues, Palisades argues "we put it right there on the box, 8 and up", parent's oh-so-slick lawyer points out that "they obviously are marketed to children because a) toys are for children and b)Sesame Street is for children so logically you must have designed this for children, despite what the box says".

don't laugh...almost that exact same argument is responsible for a comic retailer in Texas being in jail right now.

wow...i rambled on a bit there...sorry. the point i started out trying to make was "yes, Sesame Street toys would be awesome, but they cannot be part of the Muppets". even if Palisades were to pick up the license, i'd hazard to guess that there are all SORTS of copyright issues with adding them to the Muppet line. they'd have to have their own series. and does Palisades want to run two series at the same time? because if they do that, then they have to worry about robbing from themselves and tanking both lines.

i don't know about you, but i only have so much money. if they were to run a Muppet and a Sesame Street line at the same time, i doubt i'd be able to buy them all. i would have to pick and choose, and where i would have easily picked up ALL of the figs given an opportunity, i've now only bought 2 of one set, 2 of another, and one playset. this leaves the store with 4 figs and a playset that they didn't sell. which causes buy-back. which causes both lines to die out.

okay, i started rambling again, so here's the finale. do i want SS figs? yes! do i want them before at least 2005 when the current contract runs out? i'm gonna have to say "no".

sorry for going on so long...

 

[grail]

Originally posted by Luke


This actually puzzles me now looking back at that thread for the whole 'articulation' issue. As i pointed out, 'The Osbournes' mini's have 14 points of articulation at just 3 inches high. That's pretty much what the actual Muppet or Simpsons figures have. I know on a 3 inch scale this probably doesn't look as great, but it just shows what COULD technically be possible on a 'inbetween' size Rizzo if some extensive R&D is put into it. I think Pepe will look fine a little higher than his regular size, but it will probably be hard to get Rizzo's likeness on a much larger scale without him beginning to look like a mutation so midway seems about right.

aren't the Smiti's the one's that look like cracked-out lego people? if so, then that's how they get all the articulation packed in...the likeness only has to be close enough to get the idea accross, so it gives them some extra room to work in. in a traditional action figure, you want to hide all those joints.

one thing they COULD do, is to use a trick that came up recently. there are certain...anatomically correct, playboy figures on the market now that use a "simulated skin" to cover the figure itself so that the joints aren't seen. kinda like a high tech barbie. one thing they COULD do is use this type of technology WITH the smiti-type articulation to get a really high-quality figure. they could even make him fuzzy (or so i hear...i swear i have only seen PG publicity shots of these things. but i know a guy that has one...freak...)

 

[frogboy4]

Luke

Ken stated that - at the tallest, Rizzo would come in just under the bottom of Kermit's collar. That's under 3 inches right there. Any smaller and it will be very hard to articulate those tiny arms - even with the jacket. The Osbourne's are a healthy robust bunch so they will not have that isssue. Plus - let's not forget that there is a difference between a figure and a Palisades figure as reported by non-Muppet fan critics all over the place these days.

About a larger rat - The Igel Rizzo is the biggest plush in the bunch and the best likeness by far - and no one complained.

We'll really just have to wait and see. Can't really jump to conculusions yet. It would really be premature. And as a regular figure in the line, he will have to be sizeable enough and he will be too detailed and expensive to be a pack-in. I am sure much thought has gone into the little guy. Can't wait to see him!

How many points of articulation will he have? I'm thinking: neck, 2 arms, 2 legs, tail, 2 feet, 2 wrists and midsection. Not sure about elbows and I seriously doubt any knees. That makes 11! That's twice as much as Kermit!!

 

[grail]

i just had a really nasty thought that i don't think anyone's asked about yet. if Janice is being pushed back so that she can be added to a playset, what happens to her repaint?

 

[ResidentLilly]

grail i just had a really nasty thought that i don't think anyone's asked about yet. if Janice is being pushed back so that she can be added to a playset, what happens to her repaint?

That's the first time I think I've heard concerm that there may NOT be a harder to locate figure! Dunno about a repaint for her. Will have to figure that out.

frogboy
Rizzo-How many points of articulation will he have? I'm thinking: neck, 2 arms, 2 legs, tail, 2 feet, 2 wrists and midsection. Not sure about elbows and I seriously doubt any knees. That makes 11! That's twice as much as Kermit!!

That's close to what I'm thinking. Based on the sculpt right now, it will probably be Neck, Ball Shoulders, Wrists, Waist, Legs. No tail...way too thin. Still, thewe things evolve as they go, so if it can be done it will be. Sculpt is almost finished. Looks pretty cool.

grail
one thing they COULD do, is to use a trick that came up recently. there are certain...anatomically correct, playboy figures on the market now that use a "simulated skin" to cover the figure itself so that the joints aren't seen. kinda like a high tech barbie. one thing they COULD do is use this type of technology WITH the smiti-type articulation to get a really high-quality figure. they could even make him fuzzy (or so i hear...i swear i have only seen PG publicity shots of these things. but i know a guy that has one...freak...)

The Playboy figures do not have an inner armature. I have them. They are statues. Hollow vinyl statues that do not move. The current Enterprise figures have a Craiton (SP?) covering over an armature though. Rizzo would be too small for this. It also has some inherent problems.

okay, i started rambling again, so here's the finale. do i want SS figs? yes! do i want them before at least 2005 when the current contract runs out? i'm gonna have to say "no".

I expect someone else will try to pick up the license long before we are able to.

Luke
This actually puzzles me now looking back at that thread for the whole 'articulation' issue. As i pointed out, 'The Osbournes' mini's have 14 points of articulation at just 3 inches high. That's pretty much what the actual Muppet or Simpsons figures have. I know on a 3 inch scale this probably doesn't look as great, but it just shows what COULD technically be possible on a 'inbetween' size Rizzo if some extensive R&D is put into it.

All the R and D won't change the laws of physics! If memory serves, the smaller Smiti or Kubrick stuff is mostly unpainted PP or ABS. Very hard plastic that allows for little to no surface detailing. PP won't allow ANY paint but will allow tampo printing...limited. Most of these figs use PVC as the primary plastic, which allows for all the surface detailing (and yeah because of it's softness also results in the occassional "stuck" joint or break) which these figures have to have. They also have a lot of paint. The smaller you go with a PVC to PVC joint, the higher the risk of breakage. The more paint, the less of the harder materials you can use as well.

Rizzo and Pepe will be challenges, there's no doubt. But I am pretty sure we can do them small enough to where people will hardly know the difference.

 

[grail]

Originally posted by ResidentLilly
The Playboy figures do not have an inner armature. I have them. They are statues. Hollow vinyl statues that do not move. The current Enterprise figures have a Craiton (SP?) covering over an armature though. Rizzo would be too small for this. It also has some inherent problems.

really? oops...told you i hadn't seen these things up close. the impression i got was that they did. sorry...and it does figure that it's too small a scale for it to be feasable. it'd probably jack the price WAAAAAAAAAY up anyway.

and yeah...that was kinda my conclusion to Sesame Street figs, i just never got around to stating it. i was to caught up in trying to make a joke about the "oh-so-slick lawyer"...though the part about the comic retailer is true. he was arrested and found guilty of something akin to "making pornography available to minors" because he sold a behind the counter, bagged, and clearly marked "over 18" manga to an undercover officer that was apparantly OBVIOUSLY over 18. from all (admittedly somewhat biased CBLD) reports, the entire argument was "comic books are for kids, so obviously you're marketing this to children". he's in jail now, the jury and the judge bought it.

sorry, didn't mean to carry on (again)...it just kinda cheeses me off...

 

[ResidentLilly]

Originally posted by grail


sorry, didn't mean to carry on (again)...it just kinda cheeses me off...

Mmmmm.....cheese.....

 

[Luke]

Jamie

The kind of size and articulation you mentioned for Rizzo is exactly right i think - i was just kinda expressing an opinion that the larger you go with these 'rat' like creatures, the more of the likeness you lose. Take ALF (another snouted character) - for years great plushes but they could never get him right in PVC until last year. Rizzo i think would be similar and you rightly pointed out that the full size Igel plush was lovely. I have every faith in Ken, and i'm certainly not jumping to conclusions. It will be lovely to see what Palisades come up with and i'm sure the costume/accessories are the best choice too - it's going to be very cool - just pointing out the situation from my own experiences.

Ken

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I didn't realise they were made out of different matierials other than PVC, or that the features might be being printed on.

 

[Jackie]

Originally posted by ResidentLilly
No tail...way too thin. Still, thewe things evolve as they go, so if it can be done it will be. Sculpt is almost finished. Looks pretty cool.

Ken, couldn't you give him some sort of cloth tail? A cloth tail with like a wire inside to let us bend it around and stuff? I mean Rizzo's tail is an important feature! Just check out his muppetism!!!

http://www.henson.com/anniversary25/

 

[incredeeble!]

Originally posted by ResidentLilly
grail i just had a really nasty thought that i don't think anyone's asked about yet. if Janice is being pushed back so that she can be added to a playset, what happens to her repaint?

That's the first time I think I've heard concerm that there may NOT be a harder to locate figure! Dunno about a repaint for her. Will have to figure that out.

hmmmmm.... club exclusive?????