arm rods -- a distraction?

[Melonpool]

I was wondering if anyone is distracted when they see arm rods? They don't bother me in the least bit, but it seems like a lot of people are obsessed with either hiding them or painting them out.

I think a decent puppeteer (or decent cameraman) can make them work without painting them out or any number of other tricks. What do you guys think? Has the culture changed so much since the 70s that they can't accept black rods coming from a puppet's wrists?

Steve

 

[Sgt Floyd]

nope, dont bother me one bit

 

[Buck-Beaver]

I think it's a stylistic choice. If you watch the Muppets and most Muppet-style shows on TV you'll notice they perform the puppets and frame shots in such a way that the rods are barely visible. They'll also use different coloured rods depending on the puppet and scene to make them less noticeable. I've heard that they digitally painted a lot of stuff like rods out of the Muppet Movies for a DVD release, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

On the other hand, if you look at the Grogs they have this wonderful hand-crafted look to all of their shows and films and they have big black rods sticking out for all to see and no one seems to mind.

My personal take on this is that it comes down to is your character supposed to be a puppet or not? If it's like Greg the Bunny or Team America and you concide to your audience that a character is a puppet then arm rods (or visible strings) don't matter, in fact they should be there. On the other hand if it's like the Muppets and you're trying to convince your audience that your characters are real people out in the real world then rods might be a distraction and you might want to minimize them to help sustain the illusion.

 

[Melonpool]

I think there was a lot of care put into shot-by-shot how they worked the Muppets in the first three movies. I don;t think I've ever seen the rods in those films, and I had versions dating back to the 80s on some of those video releases, leading me to believe that they weren't painted out.

Yet, watching the Muppet Show and Sesame Street from the same era, you see them all the time... such as in "Happy Feet." That leads me to believe that it wasn't THAT big of a deal, either.

When I originally started this thread, I was thinking that it wasn't that big of a deal, but now that I'm embarking on a project where the puppets are all supposed to be aliens, I wonder if I'd better figure out a way to hide the rods a little bit more.

Steve

 

[Melonpool]

Well, one thing I've noticed is that once you make the decision to hide the arm rods, you often end up giving up a lot of the spontaneity effect. Now, to me, I'd rather have a very real, spontaneous puppet performance, than a kind of fake, reality performance. I mean, everybody knows it's a puppet.

 

[Blink]

I think there was a lot of care put into shot-by-shot how they worked the Muppets in the first three movies. I don;t think I've ever seen the rods in those films, and I had versions dating back to the 80s on some of those video releases, leading me to believe that they weren't painted out.

Yet, watching the Muppet Show and Sesame Street from the same era, you see them all the time... such as in "Happy Feet." That leads me to believe that it wasn't THAT big of a deal, either.

When I originally started this thread, I was thinking that it wasn't that big of a deal, but now that I'm embarking on a project where the puppets are all supposed to be aliens, I wonder if I'd better figure out a way to hide the rods a little bit more.

Steve

Steve,

For what it's worth, I say it is no big deal. People are watching and know that it is a puppet. Puppets can have rods, and at times thay are seen. I think the impact of the puppet comes from the life given through the puppeteering/performance.

True "believability" has more to do with the character than the rods being hidden, I think.

 

[Iokitek]

You could always just keep the rods in there but show them as little as possible. Then later on when you decide you don't want to see them it should be easier to get rid of them.

 

[Jinx]

I believe that if your material is genuinely entertaining and worth watching no one will say, "what a shame about the arm rods..."

As far as I'm concerned it would only ever be an issue in film/video. If a character is to be realistically immersed in the "real world" (and what is that, anyway?) then it could be important. But in a live performance I don't believe it is ever an issue.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

I think the difference between the Muppet Movies and the Muppet TV shows is that on a movie you shoot single camera, or maybe two cameras and there's a lot of time with each set-up whereas with television it's a smaller budget, faster set-ups and usually three camera so if they get a good take and the arm rods happen to be in some of the shots they don't care, or if they do they have to move on to the next scene anyway because of the schedule.

I'm not particularly good at doing it myself, but the best puppeteers I've seen doing film/video don't seem to have a problem mimizing rods in a shot and maintaining a real, spontaneous puppet performance. If you happen to care, it's probably just a matter of practice, but as many people have said it's ultimately a matter of personal preference.

 

[SJohnson]

I think as long as the puppet is performed well, and the puppeteer is creating a real character most people don’t notice the arm rods. It’s only when the puppetry is off that the eye starts to wander and notice things like arm rods. It’s kind of like seeing a Muppet performed in person, like during the Muppet Show Live at Muppet Fest a couple of years back. Even though the puppeteers were visible I still found myself watching the puppet because they were so alive and more interesting.