ABC officially cancels "The Muppets"

[D'Snowth]

My main issue with the show because it never reached its full potential, there wasn't enough time for more characters to get a developed plot. As in there were too many characters already without penguins and chickens adding to the mix.

That was one of the reasons M*A*S*H did so poorly in its first season - in addition to the main cast of six (at the time), there was about a dozen or more supporting characters, most of which were written out by the second season.

 

[Muppet Master]

I disagree.
Yes, I liked the show before the reboot, and I liked it a lot after. Both were great. I LOVED the show in it's entirety, and still watch it in little marathons...often. It flows well, but IMO it got better after the reboot. From Single All the Way, on it was great TV and great characterization...and more laugh out loud funny than before.
I think the intro of the human characters was important to give the Muppets an antagonist that WASN'T Miss Piggy (whose characterization previously suffered for it.)
I think the reason the show didn't come back strong was because of the loooooong absence, and the complete lack of advertising. Nobody knew what the reboot would be, and the examples you mentioned would only have been an issue if people came back to watch the show after the break. They didn't. So, they didn't know about the human characters, etc. and this can't be to blame.
I do hope that when the shows lands a second season, etc, on hulu (or Netflix) that they back off the branding guy, and use the Network President more as the foil, becuase he was irritating, and she was funny. But they can really limit the use of both/either, IMO.

No, ABC broke their backs advertising The Muppets return, there were promos every second of the day on ABC, advertisng was not the problem. Episodes 11-16 were too sweet and oh Kermie and Piggy together, pandering to the muppet babies and muppet christmas carol audiences, if anyone has actually watched TMS they would know that Piggy was an annoying pain in the frog's behind, always wanting to be in the show, trying to get Kermit's attention, sure occasionally she would show signs of niceness, but for the most there was no relationship between the pig and the frog, just Piggy pestering Kermit. Episodes 11-16 were just bland, nothing really funny, the reboot episode was basically "look we've made this happy and cute and full of sketches and humans and piggys nice", they completely glossed over all the great stuff they did in the first half, all the great minor characters they shed light on, down the drain, all the great Fozzie moments gone, now we get him saying something dumb every now and then like MTI. Though the finale, episode 16, had some decent momets, I really wish they had not rebooted the show, it could have salvaged the small audience left by returning the show in January and ending in Feburary and maybe we'd be seeing a renewal notice.

 

[Drtooth]

That was one of the reasons M*A*S*H did so poorly in its first season - in addition to the main cast of six (at the time), there was about a dozen or more supporting characters, most of which were written out by the second season.

Shows that do exceedingly well in their first season never manage to keep that level the whole way through and burn out quickly. Shows need time to develop, this series didn't get it.

 

[D'Snowth]

That's the problem with all shows today: networks expect a new show to literally be an instant hit overnight, and if it isn't, two episodes later, you're yanked off the air. At least back in those days, networks would often wait until the end of the season to look at the numbers and ratings to determine whether or not a show is worthy of being renewed for additional seasons.

 

[Drtooth]

Not that there aren't shows that networks actually believe in and try to get to work. But instant hits tend to lose an audience if the following seasons tend to slide in quality. Heroes is the most well known example, though that at least got like 4 or 5 seasons out of it (not counting the reboot), and everyone who thought it was fresh and innovative thought it was garbage by the time the third season was half over. And that includes those who forgave them for the writing strike kicking their butts back in season 2, leaving an unfinished mess that they should have revisited instead of the obvious super hero/mutant tropes the last 2 seasons of the series. Glee seemed to be letting the air out of the show since the second season, and it became the very same established, safe, High School Musical-y thing that it was trying to deconstruct.

 

[D'Snowth]

GLEE still gets to me, because it was canceled and then uncanceled at least a couple of times, one of which was because the castmember who had died, so they decided to uncancel the show just to do a farewell episode for his character . . . I mean, what other show has ever done anything like that? I mean, now that Doris Roberts has passed away, we might as well uncancel EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND so they can do an episode where Ray and Robert react to Marie passing away.

 

[GuySmileyfan]

With hind sight being 20/20 here are some of the more notable problems?/issues? with the show in my opinion. The show went into production very fast. I was aware of this at the time, but I think ABC should have held off and have it come in as a midseason replacement. I think with more time and planning the relationships (Kermit/Piggy/Denise and Fozzie/Becky and Gonzo sans Camila) could have been fleshed out (or felted out) more so they weren't just plot points. They would be more character based. For the first half Miss Piggy was far too much the antagonist. That is one thing the "reboot" addressed well. Now, did we need Pace or Diane? Well... Jerry Juhl has said that the characters of Fleet Scribbler and J.P. Grosse were tough to write for. They were better as off stage/screen menaces. The Muppet Show did well without a set antagonist because it was either fate itself or maybe John Cleese with his list of demands that provided the conflict. Again, maybe more time would have allowed them to figure it out. Denise could be that character, but mean Muppets (see Fleet, J.P.) don't stick around for long.

Also a big red flag for me was in the initial press releases where it was stated there would be no (and I may be paraphrasing) dancing chickens or singing fuit.

Why not? I would love to have seen an episode where Carl, receiving a package from UPS Bunny then eats the bunny and the package. And then we see a little musical rehearsal for Up Late. And then Kermit and Piggy's breakup. Funny. Musical. Touching.

But I do firmly believe the Muppets will be back. Sooner than we may think.

I hope so.

 

[goldenstate5]

I haven't read the whole thread but suffice to say that this show was a mess and the retool, despite what people may think, was more like an audition for a second season to the network than a legitimate hail mary. Who tosses a show three extra episodes and says, "Okay turn it around and make it a ratings hit in five weeks with little to no promotion or you're done." That's just not good business sense.

Now, did the audition go well? Despite the cancellation, I think it went okay. Critics were slowly coming around, and there was some workable here. Something that could flourish, that could maybe with a second season become a modest-sized, cult hit. Like an ABC version of "Bob's Burgers". Not great ratings, but reliable and with a fanbase. It sells merch, and that should be good enough. Plus the franchise is an asset to Disney, just like Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm, etc. The execs wanted to see if they could make it work to justify keeping it (and the Muppets in general) on the air.

And then the floor dropped, the earnings came in, media crashes and burns and the stock plummets. I've heard it was very last-minute with Muppets. It and Castle were the two series on the bubble at ABC, waiting for a last-minute decision. So the Muppets, in the end got off'd before an S2 entirely due to things that weren't its fault. That's showbiz!

I don't think it would have lasted much longer than a second season anyways, but that's just me. In general there were things I liked about the show (Uncle Deadly, the penguin, Rizzo, Gonzo, Scooter) and then a lot I didn't like (Sam/Janice, Denise, Fozzie, Pache, the guest stars, the horrible sketches), yet the biggest problem I had with the entire thing was the mockumentary style. It fit the Muppets like a pair of extremely tight pants: no room to breathe, to experiment.

Let's revisit how the Muppets regained their popularity: in the late 00s, several videos were uploaded to YouTube of the characters just doing silly stuff, making music videos and in general just being experimental Muppet wackiness. Disney was just letting them do their thing because what else to do with a property you recently paid a buttload of money for? It caught on due to the nostalgias and suddenly things started getting running.

So it baffles me that in the face of the disappointment of MMW they choose to try and restrict the characters. Granted, it's a pointed move to run away from the family film and go adult, presumably straight for the "nostalgias". But the "nostalgias" are based on innocence and happiness. Really not a great idea to have your first few episodes feature Kermit as a persnickety jerk and Miss Piggy bragging about having relations with Josh Groban complete with innuendos galore. This isn't subtle stuff that is meant to fly over kids' heads, this comes out of the TV, bashes their head in until he turns to his parents and suddenly wants to have the talk.

Even worse is the fact that they're boring, since they're restrictive. There were attempts to up the zany as it went along, but it feels like in the first few episodes they were trying to play up "hey the characters you grew up with now have jobs and tedious personal lives! No singing, no dancing, no silliness! They've GROWN UP!" You know who that would work for? People who generally don't like the Muppets... because that's not what the Muppets is or who they are.

And the audience gave them a chance, and Disney pulled out the stops. The night of the premiere I arrived in Walt Disney World at about 4PM, where after going to my hotel, I went to Downtown Disney/Disney Springs, and returned back to my room at 8PM. Aside from the insanity that was Twitter and Facebook, I had seen at least a dozen ads for the show in those four hours alone. The next day I went to Disney's Hollywood Studios. Again: overflowing. They did their part, you guys did yours, the creatives tried to do their's through all the struggles... but in the end there's no one person to blame. I want to say whoever the exec who made the decision, "Okay and let's put this on network TV rather than cable or streaming where it probably could survive better"... but who knows if one person made that decision. ABC's hand was forced, and now we have a sacrifice.

The loaded question after this is, of course, what happens next? Why even bother to speculate... your guess is as good as mine.

 

[D'Snowth]

the biggest problem I had with the entire thing was the mockumentary style. It fit the Muppets like a pair of extremely tight pants: no room to breathe, to experiment.

That's . . . what I've been saying about the show ever since they announced that's the format the show was going to go with. My argument was that the format has been played to the point that it's as much of a gimmick to TV that 3D became to movies for a while, and as such, it felt like having the Muppets copy the format themselves was a compromise of their integrity by trying to be like other mainstream shows, rather than doing their own unique Muppety thing. Others argue, however, that the show was sending up mockumentary style in the same vein that TMS sent up variety shows.

 

[drteethcool]

i was sad to see this show go.
I only hope this is not the end of Muppet projects.
What do you all think ?