Opinions Obliterated?

[CensoredAlso]

Some see it as pessimism, but in most cases, it genuinely isn't, it's just a difference of opinion.

I mean I've known real pessimists in my life, I know what it looks like, it ain't pretty. And I really don't think anyone here fits that profile.

 

[D'Snowth]

And to say that this isn't the place for bringing up any personal problems we have because it's not related to Muppet discussion, isn't that basically what the Friends and Family board is for? Yes, we have some positive threads, "What Made You Smile Today?", "What Made You Laugh Today?", "I Saw Something Weird Today", "How Are You Today?", etc, but we ALL have off days for one reason or another, and when we need somewhere to go, maybe to blow off a little steam, or seek advice from people who care about you, or just to escape reality in general, what better place to turn to than the Friends and Family board?

 

[frogboy4]

And to say that this isn't the place for bringing up any personal problems we have because it's not related to Muppet discussion, isn't that basically what the Friends and Family board is for? Yes, we have some positive threads, "What Made You Smile Today?", "What Made You Laugh Today?", "I Saw Something Weird Today", "How Are You Today?", etc, but we ALL have off days for one reason or another, and when we need somewhere to go, maybe to blow off a little steam, or seek advice from people who care about you, or just to escape reality in general, what better place to turn to than the Friends and Family board?

I agree with that. It's when that sort of sharing starts wandering into abuse. When the first inclination is to chip away at things. It's more muppety to explore! That includes negative and positive elements. I've been seeing a lot less of the second thing here.

Believe me, there's a lot that irks me in the world of Muppets. I make one terrible cheerleader...well, that's not entirely true. Most people believe me to be perpetually happy. [Breaks out in a spirited rendition of "Life's a Happy Song"]

 

[Drtooth]

No one is getting "screwed over" for having to pay extra to get extras on a home video release. They're called extras for a reason. And the extras we're getting look to be fantastic!

I'd gladly pay extra for extras if there was a 2 disk standard edition. I'd gladly pay twice as much. But it's not so much that fact as the whole politicking deal to get us to buy more hardware that, let's face it, some of us not only can't afford and don't want, but find unnecessary, especially for one DVD. Disney could have handled it a LOT better. I'm going to have to buy a disk I can't even use unless a friend actually gets one or until they completely go obsolete. I don't see how that's unreasonable. It's a complaint as a consumer who feels cheated that I'm forcibly left out because of some idiotic gadget that was basically invented for video game systems. If it was a VHS/DVD thing, I wouldn't mind as greatly. But it's similar technology.

Think of it this way, you're all invited to a birthday party and we're not. Feeling left out isn't a great feeling, and even if I DID have a Blu-Ray, I'd cry foul on this.

 

[Beauregard]

...even if I DID have a Blu-Ray, I'd cry foul on this.

Fowl?

 

[Drtooth]

Yeah! Throw a chicken at them.

But other than that, the ONLY major pessimism should be used where it's most welcome on this board...

Everything Henson doesn't actually do.

 

[frogboy4]

I'd gladly pay extra for extras if there was a 2 disk standard edition. I'd gladly pay twice as much. But it's not so much that fact as the whole politicking deal to get us to buy more hardware that, let's face it, some of us not only can't afford and don't want, but find unnecessary, especially for one DVD. Disney could have handled it a LOT better. I'm going to have to buy a disk I can't even use unless a friend actually gets one or until they completely go obsolete. I don't see how that's unreasonable. It's a complaint as a consumer who feels cheated that I'm forcibly left out because of some idiotic gadget that was basically invented for video game systems. If it was a VHS/DVD thing, I wouldn't mind as greatly. But it's similar technology.

Think of it this way, you're all invited to a birthday party and we're not. Feeling left out isn't a great feeling, and even if I DID have a Blu-Ray, I'd cry foul on this.

I get that. (Skip ahead a paragraph those of you who don't want to read this brief statement about blu) However, the extra payment required to see the special features on Blu-ray is $60 for a Blu-ray player. Not ideal, but certainly affordable to anyone with enough free time to hang around here. For some reason there's a myth that the discs or the players are more expensive than DVDs but that isn't true anymore. And they're very much for movies. The capability of Blu-ray is amazing. The interactive interface is something that digital downloads have yet to achieve. Blu is only like DVD in that they are both discs. Some people don't think they should have to buy a new player to watch their favorite movies, but there you go. I felt the same way when LaserDisc died and I had to repurchase everything on DVD format - actually an inferior format. It sucks, but such is life. Anyway, we've had that discussion and this thread shouldn't be turned into that one, so I'm shutting up on that.

I just get weird when false information has been presented as fact. A good example of this is when a few people have mistakenly claimed that widescreen gives people less picture when the fact is that (even in the cases where they shoot wider) directors plan for that wide format. Or that there's a lack of merchandise. Every Walmart, Target, Walgreens and Toys 'R Us has a few Muppet items right now. There were none on their shelves a year ago. I agree that there could be much more, but sometimes that takes an initial exposure of retail interest to secure the production of more merchandise. Especially with a brand that has had a spotty track record over the last decade or so.

There's sometime a rudeness here and the interference in my recent communication with a moderator perfectly outlines that:

I'd mentioned to a good moderator friend that he'd like a particular program. Another member (with absolutely no information to the contrary) butt-in with nothing constructive to add. Instead he said that no, that moderator wouldn't like it. It was a statement about his personal taste. Stating one's own opinion is fine, but that is not what was done in that case. It was rude! It's not like that member had taken enough interest in that moderator to know his personal taste. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Not a difference of opinion, but a pessimism with its only purpose to tear down. I noted the behavior at the time then let it go. I have only mentioned it here (withholding name of the oft-suspended perpetrator out of respect) due to some of the recent confusion on this thread. This is common behavior now at Muppet Central and is not the sort of thing that requires an "Opinions Obliterated" thread.

Again, we all could do better by one anther. I include myself in that. Another member was offended by one of my silly (and kind of sweet) graphics that was supposed to be humorous and I've already apologized for that. I still believe that something else, something peripheral was going on there because I see no wrong-doing in trying in my putting a cute muppety-spin on a gloomy conversation, but for whatever reason my intent did not match the result and that always deserves an apology at Muppet Central Forums. That matter has dropped.

Being thoughtful of others doesn't mean being a goody-goody, loving everything and never expressing a dissenting opinion. That sort of statement is an extreme reply that clouds a legitimate issue. We all need to consider our intent before hitting the Post Reply button. What are we trying to do? Are we arguing just for argument's sake? Are we trying to win and have other people lose? Are we really trying to share and explore issues? The number of active forum members who haven't fallen into this trap can be counted on one hand! I'm working on my 13th year here so of course I've fallen into it before.

That's the point here. No one has been silenced or had their opinions obliterated. The fact this thread exists is evidence of that. We could all be better neighbors here. More thoughtful neighbors. We should strive to state our complete heart-felt opinions without stepping on toes or creating a gloomy atmosphere. I'll certainly keep that in my mind from this post, on.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Think of it this way, you're all invited to a birthday party and we're not. Feeling left out isn't a great feeling, and even if I DID have a Blu-Ray, I'd cry foul on this.

See I think actual pessimism would be if we all bought Blu Rays and said "Ugh, not enough special features, what a rip off!" But to point out a manipulative marketing ploy is not pessimism, it's reality. And yeah I'd feel the same way even on the off chance I could afford a Blu Ray player.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

That's the point here. No one has been silenced or had their opinions obliterated. The fact this thread exists is evidence of that. We could all be better neighbors here. More thoughtful neighbors. We should strive to state our complete heart-felt opinions without stepping on toes or creating a gloomy atmosphere. I'll certainly keep that in my mind from this post, on.

Just like this thread's title is taken wrong, including "No Pessimism Allowed" in a thread title is taken as different opinions are wrong. A different phrasing such as Happy Thoughts, Everyone! or Lets celebrate would be less offensive and less likely to be taken wrong.

 

[Drtooth]

However, the extra payment required to see the special features on Blu-ray is $60 for a Blu-ray player. Not ideal, but certainly affordable to anyone with enough free time to hang around here. For some reason there's a myth that the discs or the players are more expensive than DVDs but that isn't true anymore. And they're very much for movies. The capability of Blu-ray is amazing. The interactive interface is something that digital downloads have yet to achieve. Blu is only like DVD in that they are both discs. Some people don't think they should have to buy a new player to watch their favorite movies, but there you go. I felt the same way when LaserDisc died and I had to repurchase everything on DVD format - actually an inferior format. It sucks, but such is life. Anyway, we've had that discussion and this thread shouldn't be turned into that one, so I'm shutting up on that.

I'd kill for 60 bucks right now... but I would have a LOT more things on the list than something to see one movie's special features on. I get it, but it's still an upsell. I agree that digital download hasn't quite got what Blu-ray has yet, but it's all on the doorstep. I don't think I want to spend 60 bucks or more on something that's going to be a door stop in a couple years. I just got a new standard door stop for that last year. I get what you're saying, but it comes off, and I mean no insult by this, quality snobbery. That said, I don't think it really it compares with VHS to DVD or Laser Disk to DVD (Laser Disk never caught on anyway... I've seen LD's sell in like 2 stores in my lifetime, and even then, in small cubby holes). There's only a slight amount of things Blu does that DVD can't, and that's mainly higher picture quality and sound which can't be fully appreciated unless you have a large, high quality TV... the rest are interactive things that a DVD can't handle that I really could care less about. Special feature videos AREN'T one of them.

At the end of the day there's 2 problems...

1) it's a weasel technique that involves back door deals with Sony and the entertainment company. Every company pulls this garbage, so Disney is NOT singling anyone out, nor are they singling out Muppet fans (they pulled the same crap with the Lion King re-release)...

2) Those who don't have this technology feel left out, and that's bad enough... but those who have it either give us

• "Oh, it's ONLY X dollars"
• "Yeah, it's unfair, shut up so I can enjoy it and you can't"
• "Why can't you be happy for us? We get to see something you can't! We're getting something, and that's the most important."

It's exclusionary. I know limitations and I deal with it. I don't have cable and have to watch half that stuff legally or otherwise online. I'm fine with it. I don't have an X-Box Kinect or any major new video game systems. If a new Muppet game or that Sesame Street game come out, I can't play it, but I can deal with it. Weasel tactics I can't.

Honestly, there was FAR more negativity when Palisades was making the Muppet toy line, but guess what? They listened to those complaints and addressed them as best they could to improve a product. Disney had the chance to say "yeah, what we're doing is kinda low, we'll throw in the deleted scenes to round it out." They didn't. And while I have to say they've been doing a great job so far, that lack of fan base interest for the sake of gadgetheads and technosneetches with home theaters just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. That's the last I'll speak of it, but man... that was dirty pool.